You ask me all the time what’s going on regarding the lawsuit and counter-lawsuit between OCC/Paul Teutul Sr and PJD/Paul Teutul Jr. and the status of the Orange County Choppers headquarters’ building.
First, all lawsuits between the parties have been settled. The settlement being confidential with no parties able to disclose the terms, you will never get any details regarding its content. It seems that the famous Black Widow bike was part of the negotiated package and went from OCC to Paul Jr.
Observers tell me that both parties feel great about putting behind them all financial disagreements, that relations between father and son are less tense but of course that things will never be the same again in the family.
OCC building foreclosure process is in process after all discussions to renegotiate the terms of the loan failed between Paul Sr. and the bank holding the mortgage. The OCC business is not at risk to be foreclosed. The bank will foreclose on the building – the only collateral – not on the business. Because Paul Senior owns all the property around the current headquarters, he is going to build a new property to house OCC at the top of a hill close by the current headquarters. Work should be completed at the end of the year.
I have never really watched the show with a religious understanding of the the OCC Family structure and the soap opera script ofall of the characters. Although I have in the last 1 1/2. I have watched many, many of the episodes watching the Bikes and theThemes and the Corporations that have commissioned OCC to Build Motorcycles with a Theme for them. These 2 Company’s consisting of Jr. and Sr. are a outstanding Representation of the entire Motorcycle Business. It in my opinion it has drifted from the Insurance Industry and Parts Suppliers and almost everywhere around the World. I know that the real Purists on this Blog will roll their eyes and gravitate towards most of the Motorcycle Riders have no idea on how to Build or what makes a “Quality” Bike or Build ! I think these Doods are Very, Very Talented. The theme’s that are created by Jr. are wonderful. I know that Vinnie has a tremendous influence in the Build , but I watch and have been to hundreds of events and have been to a serious amount of Shows and Jr. has the “EYE” . I know that you can talk about all the other serious Builders and Hobbyist Builders and their Talent is displayed at different events and in ways of humility. These OCC and Paul Jr Characters are and should be Well Respected and Well Apreciated in all aspects of the Industry. I like the Show and I like their Ideas and I like the “Things that they Own and even the Houses that they live in. Great Entertainment!
I went to paul Sr’s cathedral this Easter week. I can conform the black widow isn’t there anymore. Its so big you can fit Arlen Ness’ place in there and have room to spare.
I’d still love to know what happened to their ducati dealership.
The caricature of the “boys” is great Cyril !
Hopefully, at the end of the day, Father and Son can get back on the same page as a family. The rest I could care less about.
Over & Out,
Jeff
Sr. won’t make payments on the current building,
but has enough money to start building another one.
Will the same bank hold the mortgage on this one too ?
They have contributed a lot to this industry. As for the soap part…oh well. They have still done a lot of good. Now work at being a family.
Because as a (good?) businessman Sr. doesn’t want to continue making payments on a building worth today 50% of its original value. Many individuals do this with their home. Because Sr. can’t renegotiate the loan, he gives back the building to the bank although he could continue to pay the loan. The bank lose. The taxpayer is carrying the burden. Sr. wipes out a bad investment and builds a new smaller building for his company real needs. At today’s value, very low…It’s business. No morality!
Oh yea! Love the drawing.
Just another 3 minutes of my life OCC has taken.
Duke is right on! Sr. showing his true colors…it is sad because he could be a role model if he wanted…
the art work is great right down to the chicken neck on sr. but the artist gave him too much hair and left it too dark
This is just like all the rest of the dumbasses out there….I bought my house and made my payments for 30 years so I would have a nice place to live….not something I bought to get rich off of….Its value now…I dont care It is where I live and I didnt go out and get two or three extra loans on it just to go buy more stuff…….Dont make me pay for your mistakes with my taxes….go find you a good cardboard box and enjoy your just rewards…..
SSDD; David
Undisputed saturation of the OCC brand through unrelenting PR; great reality TV producing. As far as the bikes, the shop, the employees: they all look like props to support the cast. With all the money made, equipment and talent they have/can amass, the output is marginal. But that’s not what its about, unfortunately, the bikes……its about the drama deal.That idea of a Biker Build Off between the Teutals and the James Gang sounds about right. Both dramatic yet in an opposing way.
If bets were placed:
The Tuetals need to recruit some East Coast soul to win. White Knights in the House of Color, Lou Falcigno(C&L Hog Shop),etc to compete with JJ and his crew. Say what you will about JJ but in the end his crew of talent from Offroad, Vintage, Lowrider, Drag Racing and Kustom genres all coming together is a tough one to beat.
Oh and to make it fair, have them ride across Japan for a relief ride and judge the bikes at Joints or Cool Breaker.
You can bet Sr. has a personal guarantee in place on the note for the building ….. if not someone should hang who ever made the loan to OCC for the permanent financing of the building without one.
Over & Out,
Jeff
are you sure their father and son ? NOW HOPEFULLY THEIR TV SHOW WILL GO AWAAAAAAAY.
Right on, Jeff! As a former banker, my opinion is I would think the operating company occupying the building (OCC) would have had to given its corporate guaranty of the debt as well. If not,I’d like to know how a bank financed a beheamoth buidling like that, in an off-the -beaten path location, that has limited use other than as the OCC mother ship, without tons of collateral. Maybe TLC or Discovery Channel gave some type of back-door guaranty that requires the bank to foreclose and sqeeze things dry, then TV comes to the rescue????
My understanding was that The Orange County Industrial Development Agency technically owns the property under a payment-in-lieu-of taxes arrangement with Orange County Choppers.
It is,after all,just a building. It is an asset that has lost at least 50% of what is owed on it. Why not walk away from it. This is not a matter of pride but of good business sense. It happens every day. Personaly,I wish I had such clear headed thinking about my business. There have been many times that I should have done something similar to this and did not. All it did was cost me alot of money by not.
I know,it should not be about the money but then again,for the guy on the other side of the table,it is all about the money. Someone wins,someone loses and in this case Sr wins by putting up another building more suited to the building of bikes. In many ways,there were mistakes when that building was built. I believe that the next building will be better suited than what this one is. Of course,This is just my opinion. And Bigalyts has really thought about this in a clear logical concise manner. Not sure about the Jr comment,but that remains to be seen. Hats off.
Thank God it’s finally resolved, now maybe some healing can begin. It has been a sad situation where money has torn a family apart. Of course, there are other issues, i.e. inflated egos, fame, selfishness, steroid insanity, etc. but I believe “Money is the Root of ALL Evil!” It plagues me [and everyone] constantly! Wars, injustice, greed, the have ‘an have-nots, all the world’s woes can be tracked back to that intangable substance. You look at Nature ‘an there is no need for it, everything is freely given. Fer instance, what can’t you live without for a few minutes? Air, it’s all around you, just breath. Secondly, what can’t you live without fer a few days? Water, it falls from the sky. And thirdly, what can’t you live without for a few weeks? Food, We have our back teeth to chew the bark/leaves from a tree, and we have fangs to eat the sqirrel that is in that tree! We have the intelligence to fashion everything else we need. But no, we got to put a price on our blessings ‘an kill each other for them! I know, I’m being idealistic, but wouldn’t it be grand to live in that mindset? Wiz
Sr hasor had a nice ride for sale here
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Pontiac-GTO-Tri-Power-65-PONTIAC-GTO-TRI-POWER-4-SPD-Tiger-Gold-Museum-Pc-/190540405717?pt=US_Cars_Trucks&hash=item2c5d17dbd5
JimC……your just the type of person Im talking about. You sir have no honor to suggest this is the thing to do.”Walk away from something that does not suit you”…..how does your wife or past wives feel about your additude..Does this mean that since Sr. doesnt want to make payment he can just throw it off on the tax payers…because that is what a Development Agency is. Why should my tax dollars support some egotisical bastard. How does this speak to your employer or business partners……What a upstanding citizen you are.(HAHA)
SSDD; David
JimC,
In other words you want all you can get of the “Upside” but non of the “Downside” …. the “Downside” isn’t your fault, right? Oh boy …. with thinking like this, this country is doomed!
Over & Out,
Jeff
I don’t see anything resolved as Wiz suggests. I know it is a shame any sibling would sue their Dad or vice versa. I think jr. needs to be put in his place, not that I think senior is a Ward Cleaver. The caricture pic above is just how I view these buffoons. Blood money sure has a funny texture to it.
I didn’t like them 11 years ago when I did business with them and I still can’t stand them. Sr.s shrinking (less steroid use I guess) Jr.. Wouldn’t be anything except a spoiled child if it wasn’t for Vinnie doing the work for him. And Mickey, what can I say except” Cheers this beers for you” I still have a broom in my shop with your name on it.
I forgot to say Hi to Jeff and Cyril. Hey guys!
@Wiz I’m sure that wildebeast gave his life freely to the lion that tore his throat out.
Luis, That’s what it’s all about baby! You can adopt the attitude of the meal, or, as I prefer, be the LION, BEAR, SHARK, or EAGLE!!! EAT them CHICKENS, RIP their GUTS OUT, Chew twenty times… I don’t think so. SWALLOW IT WHOLE, Let the BLOOD STREAM down yer FACE!! It’s ALL NATURE!! Damn, I’m FIRED UP, gotta get sumthun’ ta EAT!! Wanna go to LUNCH, MUTHHA-F*CKA!!! Yuk-Yuk!!! Wiz
David and Jeff,you need to reread what I wrote. I don’t walk away from anything ,willingly. We do not know the whole story and with that being said,we really do not know who is on the other side of the table in this case. Unfortunately,we do not do business with a handshake anymore. There are the sharks and the fish who get eaten by the sharks.
Yes,there have been times when I have been faced by a shark on the other side of the table and I should have walked away but did not do that. All it did was cost me time and money. Was that smart of me? No,it was not and I wish I was more clearheaded at times to realize when it is a shark on the other side of the table before it ends up costing me and that is what i meant by my statement above. Like I said,we do not know the other side of this story.
We know occ borrowed money & doesnt feel like payin it back.
Hey Kyle,
Hope all is well with you and yours!
Over & Out,
Jeff
Luis is correct- OCIDA will ultimately be forced to eat this turd, and yes Bob Walker, there WAS a bank stupid enough to finance this deal without proper collateralization- my ex-employer, lol.
It was the bubble, remember? No one could ever lose money in real estate…..
Interesting.
When someone doesn’t honor a debt, someone else gets screwed. The bank will indeed get the building but what in the hell are they going to do with it? I guess it might make a nice ice skating rink.
I assume all of the contractors got paid when the building was complete, leaving the bank holding the bag. Love ’em or hate ’em, they sure beat leaving your money under the mattress. Back to those contractors who got paid – didn’t Orange County Iron Works do the roof, rails, and probably other parts as well? Rhetorical question as we know the answer.
Hmmmm…
I don’t know why a bunch of you Gentlemen of the Industry, Bike Builders and Mechanics and Shop Owners and Parts People are so hung up on OCC walking away from their gorgeous Headquarters that they Built and Designed, and placed in Forclosure. They Built the Building for their Headquarters. That Building represents their International Headquarters. The Building represented their status in the Industry. The Building represented their TV Show Set. This Building was Built with legitimate monies and not a tremendous amount of time was spent watching the and trying to save every dollar as it would be if built in todays economy. I am sure OCC’s new Building on the same property will be watched with a much tighter Belt, than before. I love how the New Headquarters are 300 feet away from the Forclosed Building. I am sure that Sr. and Jr. probably had the Taj Mahal building financed without a Personal Guarantee. I know that sounds crazy, but 7 years ago there were promotional benefits for the Bank and promises that financed the entire project without Personal signatures..That Building was a TV set for a popular Show with a pretty good Market share. If Sr. could not reach a settlement on the Taj Mahal their Old Building then the Bank has what they think is a better offer down the Road. The Building will be seen in all future TV Shows and will not stay on the Market for to long. Watch and see. I heard Cyrill and Eddie Trotta, and Jessie James are going to buy the Building and become the New “JECC”………….Jessie, Eddie,Cyrill Cycles. What a Dynasty, whar a TV Show and what a Shot of energy for the Custom Cycle Business.
Great family portrait (even if Mikey is missing).
Now….. Puuleeeez let this be over……..
-nicker-
Jesse James, Eddie Trotta & Cyril Huze forming JEEC and buying OCC building? Are you serious Bigalyts???
JimC if you honored your commitments as you say then you have ethics. Because so many people do what Sr. is doing we no longer can do business with a handshake. They take the easy way out when to going gets tough.
My dad taught me a deal is a deal. Your word is the only thing someone else can not take away from you. It may hurt but you complete the task you agreed to do.
And bigalyts, the reason so many people have a problem with the “foreclosure” reference the above. What OCC is doing, or was trying to do, is put the bank/development authority in a position to take a haircut and OCC would benefit financially by not paying their loan in full.
I don’t suspose either of you would be upset if a customer owed you and decided to forgo paying his debt and bought a new widget from next with the money owed to you. Assuming either of you own a business.
If the bank or the authority end up with the building the taxpayer will end up footing the bill. So much for eithics in business. Orange County, NY and the bank just got a lesson in Screw U101.
ps: Fantastic caricature. Really captures the essence of the personalities.
It’s tough luck that the value of Sr’s building dropped. But it’s NOT the bank’s fault. And it’s NOT “just business” to walk away from your obligations when they no longer suit you!
My home has lost value. Should I expect the bank to take the loss? Of course not! I continue to make the payment I agreed to. Why won’t Sr.?
Because he’s unethical, that’s why! It has nothing to do with making a good business decision.
Walt, my Mom made the same comment to me. She said that no one can take your good word from you….you have to throw it away. It’s something I’ve kept in mind for over 10 years of owning an ACE hardware store. I’ve never stiffed a bank or a vendor. In return they’ve worked with me and we have a good working relationship that’s carried us through some tough times.
A good business decision is not a “somebody wins and somebody loses” scenario but a “win-win” for both parties. Business is a symbiosis that’s mutually advantageous to both parties.
JimC….I pity anyone unfortunate enough to do business with someone like you!
YAWN,,,,,ahummm, is it over, someone shoot me
I like OCC its better than watchin some of the shit my wife watch’s. Give them a break, they are only human.
Jesus…..Who Cares????
good news
I lived in Montgomery for 11 years and these guys went from white trash to white trash!!
AceDan,you did not fully read what I said. I have had dealings where I have paid back more than what I had agreed to. If someone was to look from the outside in then it may have looked completely different without knowing all the details. All I am saying here is that we do not know all the details about what was agreed upon with that building and thus wrong to point a finger at OCC. I,personally have been in situations where I was forced to pay on something that should have had nothing to do with me or my company. Matter of fact,I am paying one now to our Govt because I tried to do the right thing and got screwed into paying the whole thing. It is going to cost me approx $50K because i tried to do the right thing. I should not be paying anything so with that being said,I am willing to give OCC the benefit of the doubt as to what should or should not be paid in regards to the building. I don’t know the whole story as to what all of the players agreed to. Maybe OCC is the righteous one in this deal. Maybe they aren’t,I don’t know for sure and it would not be right for me to throw stones without all the info. just my .02
As I understand it, the Teutels were successfully sued a few years back for declaring bankruptcy on their Orange County Iron Works. Sure hope OCC has a good cash flow. I would hate to have to try and borrow money with their credit rating.
When you look real close at the bikes these 2 turn out, it’s easy to realize what “OCC” stands for; “Orange County Crap”!!!
GE guaranteed the loans. The tv show is on discovery and tlc both owned by NBC and in turn GE until very recently.
I run a thriving business and couldn’t get a $10 loan without a personal guaranty in 2000 2005 or today. It’s a crime that GE exercised so little care.
What would be funnier than all heck is if the bank forecloses on the building, sells it at auction, and JUNIOR ends up buying it. I can see it happening, and the drama continues.
Here is what really happened. Lets say your Paul and Paul Jr… you see your show doing well so you come up with a plan to expand your empire by getting into the manufacture of bulk motorcycles.
They go and work out a loan for the creation of a massive corporate center with no taxes, I would guess as well that they work out with the city that if this all goes wrong we will give the bld to orange county as a community center with hockey , sports etc if needed. You damn well make sure that as you get funding for it that you do not use your personal capital, bikes created or equipment as collateral. They use merchandise, touring revenue TLC money etc to secure the loan.
Now when your bikes do not sell and the economy starts to tank… you have a fight with your partner (son). As he leaves the corporation you make sure to pay him out his fair share. As his father… you have secured all real value for the company… the bikes and the equiptment in your personal name. You then pay your son off as a lawsuit settlement so he has no repercussion as OCC fails and the show goes off the air.
Both Paul Sr and Paul Jr will scoot away out of this with all the cash and stick the city with the bld. Then Paul Jr will get his shop running under his good name and live happily ever after once he reunites with his dad in the end.
Basically this should be an investigation by GE Capital on the loss they may incur on the property unless the city takes over the bld…
Bye bye Sr, build a new building so you can default on that one when your busness goes down the tubes and we tax payers can pay that one to, what a piece a trash.
Another classic example of a good business model down the drain along with the economy – we can all thank obama for that one. Bigger is not always better, we have all seen that a hundred times and it looks like Jr will be the victor if he keeps to the basics. And funny enough, the Teutels could all walk away from bikes today and still retire comfortably off of the money they made off of the network.
JD says: ” … Another classic example of a good business model down the drain along with the economy – we can all thank obama for that one.”
Hey genius, you want to blame the economy on politicians instead of the American People who shopped for Chinese crap for decades at WalMart and bought houses with loans they had no ability to pay back then fine, but point the finger at conservative politicians starting with Reagan and hammering us down in the Bush years.
Face it Gentlemen
the custom bike era as we have seen it in the last 9/10 years is over .It will never come back with the build offs and gathering and such as seen all across the US. Just like the property that got over inflated so did the Custom Motocycle bussiness. Who’s left ??? Indian,Titan,Bourget,Ironhorse, Bigdog,just to mention let along the smaller independent shops, that we use to view
and custom vendors are gone. Daytonas Bike week has dried up these days with custom vendors.builders and such.Being from Fla in 06 there was just under 400 bike shops,dealers,builder ,etc now its under 200.
Losing the building may not be what Sr. wants and I,m sure it effects him,and being oldschool
im sure it is hard to accept.However for survival in the bussiness world rite now and exspecally the Bike building bussiness it may be a inpairative move that needs to be done and i say this from esperience as a Bike shop owner.3/4 of the vendors we use to use for custom parts and such are no longer around.
time will tell gentlemen
Shovelhead
Just my 2 cents,
There is nothing ethically wrong about Paul Sr. walking away from a bad investment. His ethical obligation is to protect his shareholders just like that of every company including the bank. It falls to the bank to establish an rate that protects it’s shareholders. I am sure that someone is about to come up with the “I am what is wrong with America” comment, but, in fact, this is simply free markets working as intended.
When a bank issues a loan they “should” look at factors including the risk of default and the likely coverage in the case of default. Then they establish a rate that mitigates those risks. In other words a non-recourse loan has a higher interest rate than a fully collateralized loan because there will be a larger gap in loan coverage in the event of default. So if the bank operates correctly, the additional revenue generated from the higher interest rates on all non-recourse loans covers the gap on the few that default. These two factors plus the expense of servicing the loan are the only reason that banks issue loans above the risk free rate.
Banks can make profit on these loans in one of two ways; (1) really digging into the particulars of the business and picking those that are likely to avoid default (2) Volume – just grab an actuarial table and find the rate and issue as many as you can above that rate.
If the bank does the above correctly then it is properly protected even in the event of default. So it is possible that both parties even on a bad business deal can act in the best interest of their shareholders. Having said that if the bank didn’t do the above then as a shareholder maybe you should move your investment to another business similar to OCC that is properly protecting its shareholders.