It’s official. Harley-Davidson has applied to have Harley-Davidson Credit Corp. and Eaglemark Savings Bank declared eligible for TLGP (Temporary Liquidity Guarantee Program). TLGP guarantees a corporation unsecured debt against default. It means that the government FDIC would pay the bills of Harley-Davidson financial entities if Harley were unable to pay its bills. Harley-Davidson fourth-quarter earnings report is due on Friday, and as I told you last Sunday, analysts expect Harley-Davidson motorcycle sales to be down 20 to 30% for the 4th quarter.
50 Responses to “Official. Harley-Davidson Asks For Federal Assistance”
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This sucks but it isn’t a suprise. I really don’t know what else to say about this…
The insatiable hunger for growth in a publicly traded company leads to this…give me a privately held company that can be satisfied with a decent profit on a quality product.
What a load of shit. No matter who our president is, our nation is totally fucked as long as the federal gov’t keeps giving these irresponsible corporatons a ‘get out of debt free’ card to just wash away all the bad decisions they’ve made driven by their own greed.
As I said MONTHS AGO Harley Davidson will be the next “Big” motorcycle company to eat it.
In my humble opinion, FUCK EM’ ! There should be no bail outs of anyone or any company! The United States has laws pertaining to Bankruptcy …… USE THEM and stay away from my tax dollars! (and yes I am one of those people who actually pay big dollars in income tax annually !)
Over & Out,
Jeff
It was not very long ago when HD was posting huge profits. What happened to the money do they really need a bail out? It may be a case of the sharks at HD smelling the blood in the water or in this case the free money. Either way I say let them make or break on there own. If they go under some of the other companies like Victory, Big Dog along with others will fill the gap. Although personally I don’t believe they are going anywhere. Good luck HD
Jef Nicklus….you go Man!
Good example, I purchased an 08 Ultra in May with Tier 1 credit.
For you boys that drive your tractor down to the coffee shop here everday, let em tell you a little something. While completing my purchase, I’ll be damned when Eaglemark Savings Bank, HD’s financial arm, financed another buyer that was still in bankruptcy at 21% with $3k down. Think he dumped out and walked on HD? Ya betcha, Bro!
Jef, I wholeheartedly agree with your humble opinion!
Poor business, ya damn right!
Boss Hawg
My vote .
NO BAILOUT for any business …
Possible solutions ….
Bank-o , re-payable loans , internal re-investments or implement the dreaded exit strategy that all businesses have in their business plan .
Been bailin H D out since the 60;s when my motorcycle addiction started .
Yes I am an admitted H D addict to the core .
Street , strip , bonneville and the open road… makes little difference .
Since spending my first dime in a Harley shop , ask any of my ex wives , every extra dime went to the Harley gods for that hard to attain need for speed .
Hate to see them on the ropes .
Good Luck Harley and Davidson where ever you are .
Ray
Brief review of HD’s recent financial history….
2003 revenue = $4.62 billion
2003 net income = $760.9 million
2004 revenue = $5.02 billion
2004 net income = $889.8 million[1]
2004 was the 19th CONSECUTIVE RECORD for HD.
Those are HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS in NET income EACH year, just 4-5 years ago.
Who fell asleep at the wheel? Jude’s discussion on earnings shows that the executives thought they could put “it” on cruise control and HD would be fine. Well they were wrong. Introducing failures like the Rocker, a failed attempt at a bobber style in the Crossbones, and continuing to try and market the V-Rod just shows that the people running this company should be FIRED!
Bankruptcy laws are in place and do work. Companies are forced to make changes and the executives who put them in that situation are relieved of their duties. Some emerge from bankruptcy strong and viable, others do not. That is what capitalism is. The government bailing out any company/industry is just wrong.
I own a small business, employ eight people, and have to make strategic decisions to ensure a viable company for my future success. If I don’t do the right thing, guess what, I file for bankruptcy or go under. No bailout for the small guy. What a joke. Who’s next to be standing there with their hand out, looking for a hand out (pun intended)?
Every comment made here has a good and valid point.
I just cannot understand how easy it was to get credit in the USA.
We bought my wife an 06 Sportster custom that was bought in Columbus Ohio and reposessed in New York state with 500 miles on it.I understand no payments had been made..at all.
To many their motorcycle is just a commodity or a toy not a way of life.They are the people that walk away and never really gave a shit anyway.
That Sportster is now fanaticaly cared for and is kept in pristine condition, so I guess at least that is a happy ending. I just hope that HD does not have an ending……..
Good luck to them.
James
My concern if HD does indeed fail is the loss of an American brand when there are too few left as it is. Not that I’m a huge fan of The Factory considering their antics with regards to us indy builders and shop owners but it’s still another large number of jobs lost as well as yet another US based globally recognized brand lost. Yeah, Big Dog is still there, sorry not a fan of theirs either and if it weren’t for the name Coleman keeping them alive I think we’d hear about them having issues as well. Polaris/Victory is a US brand but their roots are not in the on road motorcycle industry although they do seem to be making some serious strides in their current designs.
I think the independent custom builders should band together and ask for bailout money next. I mean who drove HD to have to start thinking outside the box on their designs, wider tires, Bobber styling, larger motors, etc.? The true American craftsmen are toiling away in anonymity in small shops around our country trying to find more creative ways to revolutionize our motorcycling industry.
where’s AMF when you need ’em?
It’s a beautiful sunny day. Go easy with the bowling ball jokes.
This may not be completely relevant here, but Fiat has just bought 35-percent of Chrysler.
http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/Fiat-gets-35-stake-Chrysler/story.aspx?guid={C54580BF-7CBA-4248-A5B9-79A9428DDDC2}
Looks like the address of the article was too long to show up as a link, but the article is linked to the front page of
http://www.marketwatch.com/
The US taxpayer has been bailing out most banks in the US, why not H-D’s bank?
How convenient, H-D owns a bank that makes money available to H-D Credit who loaned funds to sub prime customers to keep the H-D factory operating, and sales numbers up.
Now that the proverbial “yogurt” has hit the fan, there are toxic loans on the books of H-D Credit, no big deal the US taxpayer will backstop the risk on the toxic loans.
I hope the factory can stay afloat for the sake of the workers and suppliers but management needs to get a real overhaul. Nepotism at the top and a corporate disconnect from the base both need to be fixed. But I agree, no bailout money. Make them cash in Willy G’s jewelry.
I wouldn’t want to see the factory go under. No matter what anyone says Harley means American and while we may bitch and moan about our many complaints with the factory they do make a good bike that we choose to ride and style our own bikes after. 90% of the designs on bikes out there today are just someone interpretation of the past.
I am not sure how all this bail out stuff works. Maybe someone else could answer a couple questions.
If the HD bank ,Eaglemark Savings Bank fails does that put Harley under or just make it harder to get people financed on the new bikes?
Are the two companies tied together in any real legal way or are they seperate companies?
And what about the clothing and nic-nac end of HD’s business is that too seperate or joint?
The reason I am curious is if the banking business failed it may not effect the bike business or the clothing and nic-nac business. But I don’t pretend to know these answers so I am hoping that maybe someone on here will and would be willing to share the answers with the rest of us. Either way I hope they do survive but I don’t want to see my hard earned Tax money or anyone elses paying the bill for HD’s CEO’s to get richer than they already are at our expense.
Just a little confused! Screw the company but I hope they make it. Explain that one to me. How does it work.
Compare this whole situation just like the baker doing your little sister ending up in jail calling you to bail him out then telling you to stop by in the morning for a dozen doughnuts because he knows you have an obsession. Then floating a loan to you for the pastry because you are flat broke and you end up paying full price plus an extra fee for assembling the box and placing the pastry in the box.
love ,live and breathe your HD. It’s good for the soul.
This gives you an idea of the decline in the overall motorcycle market http://adjix.com/2qq9
This will give you an overview of provides credit to the motorcycle dealers http://adjix.com/9fx8
this sucks…. totally sucks! I don;t want to see any company go under and think that we are on the brink of a new world order. The economy sucks, layoofs are happening all over, and yes, companies are struggling, but no one is there to bail me out when things get tough, so why should we bail greedy companies?
If Harley did not make good decisions, they should go under and try to rebuild. Just like me, if I make bad decisions, my only option is to pay up and when I cannot, take my lumps and hope I can rebuild after filing chapter 7/11.
Harley, just like everyone else out there, took advantage of the ability to finance anyone with a heartbeat and now, just like the mortgage industry, is coming back to bite em! There is no bailout that can save the motorcycle industry and shouldn’t!
Yamaha is closing for a week, even Toyota is shutting down for 10 days in march…. small prices to pay to try to save their business. I love HD, but i they got too greedy to continue operating in a bad economy, shame on them…. we should hold these mega-companies to a higher standard.
No bailouts! HD needs to figure it out and if you cannot…. then close up shop. The end!
Stop selling $25,000 bikes to people who make $30,000/year and have no credit. The Sales Managers, guys on the floor and the HD company are responsible for this crap. No bailout to those morons. This is the same crap that happened to the Auto industry. They keep selling cars and warranties to people who don’t have the money. It’s fun and games until the shit hits the fan. Same thing happened to the housing industry, allowing families making $80,000/year to buy a $400,000 house with no money down and wondering where it all went wrong.
I have seen dealerships like Rossemeyer trying to sell a $45,000 Texas Chopper to a “poor guy” who thinks he will impress his wife and neighbors, work for $15/hr and have limited credit. They fucked the guy on a 16% loan for 124 months (yes… 124 months = 10 years!!!) at $350/month. And then, they wonder why they go out of business.
Stop instructing your sales force to qualify everybody in 5 minutes no matter what so HD stays off your back on the numbers. This is bullshit and all those dealerships deserve to go out of business because of stupid marketing practices and greed.
When do I get my bail out, it appears I have over extended myself, gave to many family members money for school and books, and clothes. now I can’t pay the mortgage. can I get bailed out too. to hell with the American icon thing, I’m still upset that we bail out all these businesses, what the plan for them to pay back the American taxpayer. what the plan on the ceo’s that got fat for the last tens years and leveling the playing field, if harley goes down so be it, bad management does not deserve a break. maybe they should have been more patient than greedy. the same goes for every other cry baby business that can’t plan accordingly and organize their funds. I’m just sick of it. pcik our selves up, brush our selves off, get back to where america used to be, where is that, when are you talking, ten years ago, last week, greedy for everything and everything isn’t enough.
Best business to be in is the Firearms Business. Most people are paying cash for firearms these days,not plastic or checks.
Remember when dealers were motorcycle shops? Major overhauls spread out on work benches? Head work, building stokers, rebuilding transmissions. Dealers in this area have turned down good honest work for years, older bikes, motor/transmission work and complicated repairs, taking the gravy, overcharging for maintenance work. Selling new bikes to yuppies with boatloads of money for accessories and clothing is over! There 401K’s have taken a major hit! Showrooms are full of new motorcycles yet dealer in our area are advertising to buy used motorcycles. With this economy that’s what is selling. Guess they will have to send their techs back to school to learns how to repair bikes instead of just bolting on accessories. The factory was more intent on the curb appeal of their (clothing stores). Their bubble was going pop regardless of the economy. They don’t deserve our help.
It’s times like these that make or break companies. Harley Davidson is no different than GM or Dodge. Big Company, to big to manage in hard times. Ford made adjustments to stay alive. But instead of GM and Dodge making adjustments in their way of doing business, they want the tax payers to bail them out. Taking the easy way out is America’s Big Business’ way of doing things.
Big Dog Motorcycles is the only motorcycle company that I can see that is playing things smart. They did have some lay-offs, but did what they needed to do before it got to a point where they couldn’t pay their bills. I know they are not nearly as large as Harley-Davidson, but like I said, it’s times like these that make or break companies. I think if Big Dog survives, they will come out strong and be a solid name in the industry. Harley’s problems only feed the companies like Big Dog and Victory. Not that Victory is doing too well either.
Good Luck Big Dog and Victory.
Sorry Harley, you should have learned the first time you got to greedy.
No Bailout. Go Bankrupt.
Sharpo ,
Maybe you should look into Bourget Bike Works. Very recently they were doing real well and continuing to move forward.
In my humble opinion, Harley should start selling off unneeded assets before asking US for money. Come on… A bailout? We are not the ones who gave credit to every Tom, Dick, and Mary, regardless of their income. “You make $30k a year? No problem! Have a seat while we load up your new bike!” What was the price tag on the new museum? How much is Harley’s motorcycle collection worth? What did they lay down for MV?
The boss of Harley credit walked off the job and disapeared…Is he in Brazil?…Did he have anything that he was afraid of getting caught at? Is he the Bernie Madoff of Harley?
The HD Dealers started making more money off the financing than the product. I’ve seen sales managers push 10 year loans and outrageous rates and laugh afterward if the poor sucker bit. Home run they called it if you could load the mark on financing and extended warrnties. Screw ’em.
This may just be the tip of the ice-burg. I wonder how many HD dealers that were forced into buying those huge buildings next to the freeway’s are ready to fold? Hope they can hang on until this economy turns back around.
Several already have in recent months, JMO.
Dun Dun Dun, do I hear the need for AMF coming back?? Could this be the fall of the BIG COMPANY? Lets wait an see what happens in the next year or two to the big boys.
I vote No Bailout
Same old song & dance as the other big GREEDY companies that had winfall earnings & prohits. Although I’ve owned a HD (and many more new throughout the years) they too should be held accountable for their greedy actions.
If they can stay in business – GOOD. If they can’t …….. survival of the fittest.
Paco
Karen,
I have seen the new Bourget Bike. Looks like the old ones. Talk about Greed. $80,000.00??? There is no way that bike is worth the money that they are asking. There may be a few fools out there that will pay it, but the days of the ultra expensive bikes are over. The bike makers are going to have to get back in line with their pricing if they want to survive. I’m sure they will still be around in some form or fashion. ( Bourget ) I don’t see them moving foreward, more crunched down and hoping for the best. I know several dealers that are having a hell of a time moving their bikes. That’s the story everywhere though. I wish Bourget luck as well. They are definately going to need it.
Sharpo
Sharpo,
The ONLY thing I am selling now is my one-off stuff that starts at $75,000. With that, thank God, I am almost 2 years out on back order. The people who have the money to afford that price range of bikes typically are not affected much by the economy. I am therefore sure Roger is doing well.
Over & Out,
Jeff
I hope the greedy bastards fold,, my bike will then go up in value
If the greedy bastards running Harley Credit Corp would give credit to people who are able to afford to pay their loans back, they wouldn’t be going under. Last year I tried to purchase a Harley and had my loan application declined due to some past problems. So that’s $15K less money that Harley made, and however much less interest Eaglemark brought in.
No big deal on my part, I ended up rebuilding my 1984 Honda Shadow VT700C, where it should be on the road this spring.
At least I know it works right and won’t need to drop an additional $10K into it to make it work the way it’s supposed to. From what I’ve read, even with the additional “customization” there’s no guarantee a new Harley will ever work right.
To hell with Harley, let them go under, they deserve it.
Oh yeah, I forgot to add that I make $74K a year not including bonuses, and my past problems were due to the fact I had been out of work for a few years after working for over 30 years straight.
Even with all my current debts up to date and very low in dollar amount, I didn’t qualify. I can’t understand why some who made less than half of what I make qualified for loans, especially if they had a poor credit history.
Watching as I am from the other side of the world here in Australia, and with a government who doesn’t hand out bailout money like candy at a kids party, it is a little hard to understand…we have had major auto parts suppliers which keep our local car makers going go bankrupt and threaten the local car industry jobs and cause shutdowns, yet the government here just says “oh well, that’s business, we can’t bail out unsuccessful companies!”. Maybe you Yanks need a little Aussie guidance…
I am not an economic expert, but how is handing over a bunch of taxpayers dollars going to do anything but put off the inevitable? If a company can’t stand on it’s own feet, then if you give it money to bail it out, and they don’t radically change thier practices, then what is the point? It will just fall over again and need even MORE money to keep it going “just a little longer”.
Let them go, don;t give them money…it will force them to cut back, downsize, and become a profitable, realistic company who will run to a budget.
Jeff Nicklus,
I was referring to Bourget as a Manufacturer. I understand the 1 off Custom Business. But Karen was referring to them as a Manufacturer. How long does it take you to build a Full 1-off Custom? Bourget can build their Cobra in a few days and charge $80,000.00. We are not talking 1-offs. With due respect, you are probably 2 years behind because it takes you longer to build a bike. Bourget and Big Dog are company’s that can build several in a week. By they way, does Roger actually have anything to do with Bourget any more? I heard is ex-wife and a few board members are running the place and Roger is building 3-wheelers or something like that? Nevertheless. I feel that Harley-Davidson should take some of their own medicine and suck it up and quit asking for a free ride. It’s no wonder they are struggling. I was at a show this week-end and noticed the same old Harley mentality. They act as if they are better than everyone else and you should be honered just to buy their bike. I saw this in the early 90’s and that is what hurt them and Made Big Dog and the others what they are today. If it wasn’t for Harley’s shitty attitude, they might not need help. Let’em sink, theres plenty of other bike builders that would be more that happy to actually talk to their customers and sell them their bikes.
Sharpo
Sharpo,
Jeff Nicklus Customs, my one-off only business, is a registered manufacturer just as my Desperado Motorcycles Company is a registered manufacturer, just as Bourget is a registered manufacturer.
I do understand where you are coming from and I will say this ….. Rogers regular production items … on the high side are $80K +/- and it takes a “several” days to build that bike just as my Desperado “Gun Runner” is my Desperado top of the line bike that has an MSRP of $68K …. that likewise takes several days to build. One more thing …. neither Roger or I, or whomever for that matter, would not build the high dollar bikes if there were not customers out there buying them.
In answer to your question as to Rogers participation in the company ….. even if I knew that answer, which I don’t, I surely wouldn’t answer it without Rogers permission …. In other words that isn’t any of my business.
It does, on average, take me 1 year +/- per one-off bike to build …. it should be noted however that in that year I may have 10-15 other one-off bikes working at the same time ….. so to say I actually spend a full year on a single bike would be misleading.
I have never had a problem with the Harley Davidson Motorcycles, however, I have always had a problem with those within The Motor Company and their “I can be an asshole because we are Harley Davidson” attitude. In fact that attitude, and the fact I had to wait 14 months for a Fat Boy and then when the bike finally showed up it was the wrong color and the dealer told me, and I quote, “You either take the mother fucker as it is or you can wait another year and maybe get the one you want. I don’t give a fuck either way because if you don’t want it the next guy in line will.” To be honest with you that comment is what got me into the motorcycle industry in the first place. So I suppose I should thank the assholes and move on. The Motor Company and their attitude are so last decade! There are alternatives out there that build, if not an equal product, possibly a superior product and those companies do not have the “asshole …. You are privileged to buy from us…” attitude.
I personally have no doubt that Harley Davidson will survive, just as I have no doubt that Harley Davidson will file Chapter 11 Bankruptcy and no doubt that a foreign investor will buy them out of bankruptcy.
Over & Out,
Jeff
I think you call this greed! Support no bail out for HD!
I’m sorry H.D. is having trouble. They were doing so good but didn’t watch what was important with the profit. And now they’re asking for Federal Assistance. If they would have given the general pubic a chance to buy, but they wouldn’t give us a chance to buy one of there over priced thats right I said it they charge to much for there bike’s. As much as your charged for any product with H.D. on it why do they need assistance. Lower the prices and let more people have a chance to buy.. I sure can’t afford one. I ride a V-twin. Anyway Harley charges to much and doesn’t need to…….Bob
I ride a HONDA, and they have not asked for any of my tax dollars. Screw Harley and their second rate motorcycles. HONDA MAKES A BETTER BIKE FOR LESS MONEY. YOU COULDN’T GIVE ME A HARLEY. WELL YOU COULD, BUT I WOULD JUST SELL IT AND BUY 2 HONDAS. SUCK IT HARLEY I HOPE YOU CRASH AND BURN.
Harley parts are uber expensive, mechanics lack training and knowledge, they use in-your-face marketing to sell a look, not motorcycles. They leak oil, run like tractors, break down, shake the fillings out of your teeth. Years ago, Harley earned a good name and were rightly associated with American quality and patriotism.
Now, they’re just another corporation with ads and marketing replacing quality. They appeal to peoples’ weakness and need to “belong” rather than the strength and individualism they once stood for.
Touring in the ’80’s, I met real Harley riders who were real motorcyclists. They didn’t care that I had a BMW because I was out on the road doing the same thing they were. Last year I arrived for a group ride (not a Harley club) and found a bunch of lawyer and stockbroker types on $25000 bikes with $2000 each worth of brand new Harley gear. They wouldn’t even look at me, much less speak to me. What a bunch of pricks.
Whatever Harley once had, they’re just a fad now.
I have hated Harley Davidson since the 50ies when they owned the AMA and controlled racing by eliminating a Double overhead cam 500 single cylinder Norton Manx from competeing with their 750 twins making a rule that only a 500cc OHV twin or a SOHC 500 single could be raced in the AMA against their 750s. When Dick Mann started beating the 750 HDs on a Matchless 500 SOHC that he maintained himself, Harley hadf then AMA eliminate that bike too. Being a European bike nut, I developed a hatred for HD and the AMA for their dirty politics. To this day, the AmA still controls half mile and mile dirt track racing. Needless to say, I don’t go to half mile or mile races and never will buy a Harley Davidson. I have hoped for the last 50 years that they would go out of business. Maybe, at last, the day is comming.
This is perfect, it countered some opposition I had heard.
Thanks for the info!!
It helps a lot.
This company’s Financial Bank “Eagle Mark Savings Bank” are a bunch of “SCUM-SUCKING~BOTTOM FEEDING BASTARDS!!!! They approved my son, who was only 24 yrs old with a terrible FICA score with no blame but himself, but they approved him for a $9,000 Harley at 28% interest. Five months later my Son died in a fatal motorcycle crash on 8/30/11…
If these Predatory Lenders continue to get away with this type of practice to make money, what accountability do they ever have if our Fucking Government continues to bail their asses out with our tax dollars!!!!!!!!!! REALLY!!! In a different scenario ~ if Predatory Lending Practices wasn’t allowed to be practiced, and the Company (Harley Davidson) was actually accountable for their bad risk taking lending practices for high risk customers like my son, I’m not denying he was at fault and had terrible credit, although “HD” didn’t give a shit!!!! WHY you say???? Let’s see, if the US Government continues to cow tow to their special interest scum-bag Banking Leaders, then maybe more American Made Company’s could be something we are proud of again.,and perhaps my son would be alive today if he were turned down for the loan…
By the way, I spoke with a Representative of the “HD” Credit Department, and spoke with a Supervisor named “Todd”. When I called him out on his scum-sucking bottom feeding tactics of lending money to high risk customers, HE LAUGHED AT ME AND HUNG UP!!!!
This so called “Supervisor” had the professionalism of a “Crack Dealer” on the street as far as I’m concerned. Who the “FUCK” laughs at a mother who has lost a son to a fatal motorcycle accident?????
Harley Davidson ~ The Chinese will own you soon, just like the rest of America, because your a bunch of money grubbing, instant gratification seeking greedy bastards that will loose BIG TIME!!!!
I’m not done yet, the Human Resources Department of “HD” will be hearing from me about this individual from “Eagle Mark Savings Bank” aka ~ Harley Davidson Credit, and after that, the power of the pen goes a long way when you make it your priority to “Fight for the Underdog”!!!!