“”…….Labor unions are dinosaurs, there is no longer a need, (hasn’t been for many years), for their existence. There are agentcies (OSHA, NIOSH, IMSHA, EPA, etc) now in place to help protect workers from hazardous working conditions, and enforce fair hiring practices……..”"

Not too long ago, an illegal alien was driving a 20 ton packer and ran over a Geologist at a power plant in N. Ga, he didn’t speak English, nor did he have a driver’s license AND his SS# was also being used by 2 others in the Midwest. The same company is still there with the same employees. Which Govt agency will look out for me again?? When I get a high Carbon Monoxide count on my air monitor and I’m told to keep working or they’ll find someone who will; What agency feeds my family?? A good friend of mine (non union) that works for a major GC is told he’ll be fired for working >8hrs without prior written approval yet he is told to do whatever we ask him to do, OT or not. They’ve backed him into a corner. It’s an incredibly naive person that count’s on the Govt to enforce a safe working environment & fair hiring practices. The Govt has done such an excellent job of protecting us from the illegals flooding through the borders haven’t they? These same illegals are real quick to get the Govt involved if they’re not making a fair wage I’m sure. I’ve been on jobs where people are killed; Where was OSHA before it happened? You may not need a Union to ensure these things but it’s laughable to think the Govt will

Tell us now about the mansion you live in.
You already told us that 60,000 a year was more than you earn.
Subcontractors can make that in a month. That must really piss you off.
now go get your little union cookie and go to work.

I may not be the best speller but I would compare paychecks or bank acounts with you anyday.
That is if you wish to see how bad the union really has treated you.

I’ve only seen one guy ever get his job back after a termination in our local but racial epithets had been used so that’s another issue altogether. I have seen several guys in the CWA & heard about guys in the UAW get their jobs back after a well deserved termination and it made me sick to be fair. That’s absolutely unfair to the Contractor and the Local he/she represents.

There are definitely abuses by Unions that contribute to the decline of the affected companies; my point is that there is very often a flip side to the coin. I would also agree that the UAW significantly contributed to the decline of the domestics.

My theory on the HD plant is that the two sides came together and compromised on what’s mutually beneficial for both management and the workers to keep the company prosperous. If the owners shared your view of their workers; why wouldn’t they just re-locate without any negotiation at all? Then, they wouldn’t have those “slackers” to worry about.

An employee can and often starts at various rates of pay in my particular local as long as the minimum is met. We have voted and accepted lesser rates of pay when times got tough to stay competitive. Unions aren’t immune from the laws of Capitalism

The minimum for our pension is 1600hrs and that has everything to do with performance because if you’re let go during a slow time of the year, you may not reach the minimum.

Please remember that I’m actually in a Union so I’m in a decent position to separate your “facts” from the truth

I don’t take any of this as personal criticism. However, I refuse to be categorized as a slacker/bad employee just because I belong to a Union.

You’re right, it’s not a spelling bee. However, your grammar and spelling speak volumes.If you’re showcasing the ignorant grammar in caps; please at least know the difference between your and you’re (you are) LOL.

Since you’re so eager to tell me about myself; I’ve a little observation as well. After 27 yrs as a sub, you’re looking around at the Union guys that have something to show for all those years and the bitterness has really, really, set in.

Jeff Nicklus,

I can appreciate your position and that’s sounds like a mess. It would probably explain at least part of the lack of comm/industrial construction these days. I’d probably feel the same way to be honest. That iron worker should have his a** terminated

How is it possible that I make more than my Union peers given your statements regarding Union pay? Didn’t you say we all make the same pay?

NO you are the one that said all union workers are given the same rate of pay.

I appreciate your right to your opinion but let me clear up something for you. The Union contract I work under dictates the “minimum” wage for a Journeyman, Apprentice, Helper, Laborer
…………….meaning the same starting pay……….I would hope that with time you would make more than the helpers

How is it not possible, or even complicated, for a contractor to terminate a Union man? According to you it doesn’t happen. Come on big boy, your words

Thats not what I said so pay attention here;
they do get fired but then the union stuart comes back and whines and gets them their job back. or they are sent to another job to slack there. How is that fair to either contractor? I have seen it with my own eyes, if you say it does not happen then I know you are either blind too what is happening around you or lying.

If we’re just working long enough to get back on unemployment ; then how do we accrue enough time to qualify for these “undeserved” pensions?

If you work the minimum hours which is very few and pay those union dues you get the pention. It has nothing to do with job performance.

Thankfully, I had Union teachers teach me grammar including the use of comma’s, how to spell benefits, unfair, etc

I am sure you do know how to spell BENEFITS being you collect plenty of unemployment BENEFITS and make claims of how UNFAIR things are at work.
Sorry I misspelled those words but I did not know this was a spelling bee or I would have proof read my home work and again I am sorry I hurt your wittle feeling but I had no clue you was so sensitive. I thought a big tough union man like you, that works two days straight could take a little Criticism but I guess not.

By the way YOUR FIRED

Wow, your obviously threatened to make it so personal. I guess I struck a nerve when I debunked your “Union man can’t get fired” and the ‘All Union guys make the same rate’ theories. I haven’t missed a day of work in years barring one trip w/wife to the doc. So we jump from the job to unemployment only long enough to get benefits?!?! We have mortgages just like the rest of America and I don’t know anyone that has money management skills like that. You seem to like slinging the insults when someone has the gall to illustrate exceptions to your generalizations.

Working all night? Wow, you raging stallion. Steamfitting all over the world involves working shut-downs…. ie: working until you’re done,often for a couple of days. Please forgive my failure to cower when you celebrate your manhood with the “I worked all night bit”. That’s funny info that may not have inferred as much machismo/work ethic as you’d hoped.

Once again I’ll ask you ……

How is it possible that I make more than my Union peers given your statements regarding Union pay? Didn’t you say we all make the same pay?

How is it not possible, or even complicated, for a contractor to terminate a Union man? According to you it doesn’t happen. Come on big boy, your words.

If we’re just working long enough to get back on unemployment ; then how do we accrue enough time to qualify for these “undeserved” pensions?

Thankfully, I had Union teachers teach me grammar including the use of comma’s, how to spell benefits, unfair, etc.

I owned another company once years ago and we were doing a project on a shopping center in Des Moines IA. The project was union therefore I could not use my people on the project and I was forced to employee union workers. Therefore I had the Iron Workers, Glazers and Carpenters Unions on the project. In every case they were a bunch of lazy bastards that were good for nothing. I digress ….. In most cases we used the Iron Workers and Glazers for about three weeks each. When the project was over EVERY ONE of the workers filed for unemployment and did in fact receive benefits contrary to my objections with the state. I had to go through the Union Hall to get workers, and I am sure the people they sent me were guys just standing there at the time. None of these people were interviewed by me nor were they employed on a full time basis by me, however, they did receive unemployment insurance from me! That is screwed.

Over & Out,

Jeff

GTLover,

couldn’t possibly agree more

….”Organized labor and big business can indeed partner well together; and there is a history of both parties abusing their power to the detriment of the other……”

Jeff,

….”he can now collect unemployment. Please don’t deny this is true as I have been there and done that! ……”

That’s not true. You absolutely won’t qualify for un-employment from a contractor in the State of Ga having only worked for 2 days at a job unless you made >$3200 in those 2 days.They wouldn’t legally qualify as your last employer BTW so I’m not sure that he’ll get it at all unless he still has benefits left from his last period of unemployment.

I couldn’t agree more; he should have been canned outright. One reason that it usually ends up being a layoff is that things have been slow and I think they’re just too forgiving/soft. That’s just how it turned out in this instance. We don’t see many terminations and yes I’ve had plenty of good paying welding work outside the Union but it’s up and down. Just trying to dispel some of the generalizations on here about Unions. Trade Unions in the South vs. the North seem to be a completely different animal from what I’ve learned. I’ve had a couple great paying full time jobs outside the Union as well and the Union environment isn’t for everyone.

……”How does a guy come to our job and get laid off 2 days later for being a slacker??”…

Couple of key words in this sentence: 1. “laid off” …. he should have been FIRED because now this idiot who fucked off for two days and was “laid off” and not fired he can now collect unemployment. Please don’t deny this is true as I have been there and done that! 2. “Slacker” the definition should read “worthless”

I just love it when a company is successful it is due to the “working man” and when a business fails it is due to “bad management” …. bullshit! In truth it is always a combination of the two. Unions, in my humble opinion, have out lived their usefulness. The character and performance of the individual worker should say it all. If you are one of the hard working and caring employees, as you state, then you are also one of the people who would be successful without the union. Just a thought. Have a good one.

Over & Out,

Jeff

Our primary responsibility, then, if we are loyal to our country, is to offer the best possible product – whether it is finished goods, raw materials, or simply labor and service. Employers are, in fact, customers of labor – union or otherwise, and if the customer is unhappy with the product they will go elsewhere. For many of us, providing quality service to our employers is nearly indistinguishable from providing quality service to the customers of our respective companies.

Our secondary responsibility is to buy quality, and to seek a domestic source for it whenever possible. Money talks, how do you spend yours?

I appreciate your right to your opinion but let me clear up something for you. The Union contract I work under dictates the “minimum” wage for a Journeyman, Apprentice, Helper, Laborer. The contractor is free to pay more and that often happens. Merit and work ethic do in fact, play a part; especially when the layoffs are necessary. My Union isn’t unique in this respect either. In fact, we’ve negotiated to freeze pay increases and to work certain jobs at a reduced rate of pay to stay competitive in the bidding process. Don’t let the facts get in the way of your “opinion” & I’d respectfully suggest you be a little more careful generalizing about such a large group of people.

-nicker-

As far as Harley goes, I will keep riding my pan so the future for Harley doesn’t worry me too much. I find the motor co. concerned with image too much and dealers are dealers. If you don’t want to buy a new bike then they have little interest in you. This is not anything new.

Its all about balance.

If a worker slacks off for just 15 minutes a day.
In a years time he has cheated his employer out of more than 60 hours work.

That union iron worker Jeff talked to, he sits for an hour each day costing his employer 6 weeks pay each and every year. Over a twenty year span that equals more than two years he was paid for work he did not do. There is nothing honorable about that. Sounds like theft to me.

Unions insure equal pay for everyone.

I don’t know about the rest of you, but if I work more than the other guys I want more pay for doing so, That just seems fair to me. If a person does not want to work, that is his right to do so, but don’t expect me to pick up your slack without being paid more for doing so. The only workers that are worse than the union guys are the government workers.
Sorry if this offends you but , It is what it is

Jeff; You are 100% correct one lazy worker can infect the whole business. We call it cancer in our business. When one person is or becomes cancerous they are cut out fast before it spreads to the rest of the employees. The other side of that coin is we do give bonuses and more pay to those that deserve it.
That, I believe is the American way.