The Gilroy designed Indian Chief which is now made by Indian King’s Mountain may have some Harley features but the wheel base is much longer. The monoshock technology cannot be found on the Harley and the fuel injection is on the left side. The new dash has a throw back look older Indian fans can appreciate plus new features younger riders expect. The bike suffers from the first-year bugs but they will get those solved soon enough.

The new 105 engine, cast from molds developed by Gilroy has S&S insides that seem to hold together well……….at least for the 8900 miles we put on our 09 Roadmaster.

The teardrop headlight is clearly Rick Doss. Rick owns the design patent. He invented it. He owns the patent and he owns the rights to it. United States Patent D423,126 (issued 2000, expires 2014)

Speaking of the teardrop, I think it has become as much a part of Indian as the skirted fenders. What do you think? You see that teardrop and you know it is not a Harley-boring-everybody-has-one-and-they-all-look-the-same-bike. Get closer and you see art. Even the early 1999-2001 Gilroy so-called Harley clones with the S&S engines and soft tail suspensions out class the Harleys in appearance. Hats off to Ray Sotelo.

You can take the best Harley has to offer………..all the bells and whistles and place it on the sidewalk next to a new Stellican Indian and the contest is over. The Stellican bike is longer, has a better suspension system, has killer looks, and gets the looks. That is what has those Harley riders so upset.

I hope KM can keep it going in this very difficult market. The price is high but the manufacturing costs are also high. That KM factory is for assembly only. There are not many parts on that bike that KM can claim a manufacturing profit on. That will change as they grow. The price has dropped ten thousand dollars in less than a year. They are selling bikes. They have assembled 500. Even that seems to scare the shit out of Harley owners. Indian was before Harley and you cannot dispute that.

Indian is catching up fast………..not because they are producing thousands of bikes………….but because Harley is in a down fall. The gap is closing. Look out for the tiny little KM lean and mean. They are growning while the rest are shrinking.

Good job to Indian for getting a plug from ABC. Keep up the good work!

John L. White
CEO Crazy Horse Motorcycles LLC

Ask yourself this, Indian Rider: What would your impression of someone be if they called themself “Harley Rider”?

And if that’s not bad enough, ask yourself what your impression would be if you discovered they actually rode a Honda Shadow, yet knew little or nothing about either brand.

That should give you some idea of how you come across.

But unless someone has modified their stock Harley by replacing American-made parts with Japanese parts, then their Harley is also overwhelmingly made of American parts. By a very, very wide margin.

You seem determined to turn this discussion into a “Harley versus Indian” battle, I’m assuming to take the focus off of your lack of knowledge concerning Springfield Indians versus fake Indians.

But since we’re talking about where things are made, if you click on the last line of this page…

http://www.indianmotorcycle.com/AboutIndian/CompanyFAQ/tabid/105/Default.aspx

…you’ll see this sentence:

“We are proud that all Indian Motorcycles and PowerPlus engines are assembled right here in the USA, in Kings Mountain, NC.”

There’s a big difference between “made” and “assembled”.

If you want to believe the new “Indian” motorcycle is an original design built by a 108-year-old American company, you have every right. But if you hope to convince others to share in your lunacy, it will require more than emotional outbursts; you’ll need to present some facts.

I understand your frustration, Indian Rider. You just love those big, swoopy fenders and you desperately want all the “history” at the new “Indian” website to be true. And it’s difficult to admit you’ve been duped, especially after you’ve spent so much money on what you believed was a classic American motorcycle.

Unfortunately, the time to research products is before you buy them, not after.

“Funny that “TODD” didn’t even acknowledge that his harley is more Japanese than American.”

I would if it was.

Let’s see, on my Harley the frame, motor, transmission, gas tanks, front & rear fenders, oil tank, carburetor, air cleaner, complete exhaust, clutch, compensator, primary chain, inner & outer primary covers, drive belt & pulleys, saddlebags, crash bars, wheels, tires, axles, rear suspension, brake discs, calipers & pads, dash, handlebars, grips, hand controls, saddle, footboards, rear brake lever, shift levers & linkage, kickstand, all cables & brake lines, windshield, lower wind deflectors, headlight nacelle, headlight & passing lamps, turn signals, taillight, starter, battery, ignition & coils, plug wires & spark plugs were all made in the USA.

I’d say that comprises the majority of the bike, wouldn’t you?

By the way, that crowd you say gathers around your “Indian” is probably taking pictures of the Liberace saddle to amuse friends. Regardless of the other origins of this bike, that saddle is one item that’s definitely original.

“The teardrop nacelle sadly though is not Doss”

A picture is worth a thousand words:

http://westcoastdist.com/store/Index.htm?cat34.htm

Pop also wrote:

“Tank emblem says Indian. Title says Indian. We got a saying at Foxwoods, read ‘em and weep.”

Stolen name, stolen logo, stolen design, foreign owned. It’s not me who should be weeping.

If someone pays good money for a stolen car, that doesn’t make it any less stolen. It makes them an accessory.

hmmmm.. REAL AMERICAN. Assembled maybe.. but parts? Thank The former president for makin “Harleys worth 43 % less”..

Look it up on http://www.cyrilhuzeblog.com

The teardrop nacelle sadly though is not Doss, neither the one piece Gilroy or the two piece KM but don’t let me slow your roll with facts. I wish you were right. My life would be easier if they were interchangeable.

Spewing is one way to make your case. Demonstrating a little knowledge of the machine, it’s history including the real world issues that forced the PowerPlus design to be a compromise between new and existing components, and at least in Gilroys case the ongoing effort to move forward with more inhouse manufactured components with each model year until the feces hit the rotating vanes. I can’t speak to KM because they haven’t got enough track record to curve the chart yet.

If you unload with parts lists of vendor supplied components as some kind of proof of the failure of originality consider saving yourself some time and list the motorcycles that are entirely inhouse manufactured. As you note there won’t be any from Kings Mountain. It goes without saying that there won’t be any from York either.

By the way, thanks for the Springer history. Having had a few over the years I kind of had a handle on it but it’s all good. The Bad Boy was not a latter day fake of the knuck even though it was built by a company that had been owned by various entities in the intervening years and that the two machines bore very little in common with each other beyond being aircooled and V twins. It was an iconic looker that made a statement about Harley history in current terms.

The valenced fenders on my Indian do the deed for me too. Tank emblem says Indian. Title says Indian. We got a saying at Foxwoods, read ‘em and weep.