One time if you wanted to buy a house or car you had to go to your local bank and show the boss you could carry the loan….then the right wing made sure that anyone could create “credit” (ie: think everything from credit cards issued by 1000’s of businesses and all the other modern credit outlets)
The revolutionary change in the “creation of credit” by REPUBICAN administrations run by filtthy rich idots such as Reagan, Bush senior and shrub who will go down as the worst president every in history, has lead to what is now the status quo.
However you boobs who keep slandering Obama don’t understand because you haven’t read or understood any American history …you are blaming the worng guy….he only came into office (the first ever President who wasn’t a wealthy man hardwired into the money circles)…he didn’t create the problem.
Bush and shrub have made a fortune trading on the creation of credit and what that did to the staock market (read BUBBLE)…..do you you really think the right wing rich Republican brahmins didn’t know how to make money on that???!!!
Get an education….your ignorance is showing (along with that other indicator of ignorance = racism).
BigBonnie

Watch it now young man.

I got your “softies” hanging & curling wet towels as I exit the shower!

Vroom vroom vroom.

Boss Hawg

Don’t think of it as protectionism, rather think of it as being environmentally and socially conscious about the rest of the world.

Thanks for the comment. I don’t think we have met. Tom & I will be in Sturgis – you can email me at ckapp@artinmotionllc.com to set up a time & place.

Christi

I know you all are some softies, but hey, I can not help you there. I have to have fun on here and make everyone pissed then smile, its my “trademark”….JK

Conrad, real men like that kissy kissy feely stuff….lol!

Boss Hawg

Good thread, good thread.

Damn guys …. I will buy each of you a beer in Sturgis ….. actually Chris yours will have to be a Light Beer … remember the diet!

I personally think this was one of the best rants on Cyrils site in some time now …. I know I enjoyed it.

Over & Out,

Jeff

Bradley

Your building one helleva motorcycle . keep up the good work .

Ray

Okay, I am calmed down. You actually brought a smile to my face. No more hard feelings.

However, the prices you have are way off. If you can get those items that cheep, then perhaps you can consult with me. dar@darwinmotorcycles.com

In our early years, we did use the flat fender, but it was double the money. However anyone who follows us, knows we are constantly on a quality campaign and have made several improvements in our bikes. We now use a 13 gauge hand spun fender from Lead Sled which is over $100. Our frame is over $1,300 just to name a few. If you would like to help a brother Vet, then tell me how to get those prices so cheap on some of the other items you mentioned. Feel free to email me.

Have a good Sunday.

And Chris, thanks brother, got your back anytime, anywhere.

Best to all.
Dar

C-

Now here you go again…First Jeff and now me? For your info….Boss Hawg is not a CB/Internet name…it is a name given by respectable industry peers. I live on St. Simons Island, GA…if you would have researched just a little bit you would see my phone number, too….I don’t hide from anyone….the people that need to know…know where I am, too!

I am a Vietnam Era Veteran…Respect Brother! I owned my first Harley Superglide in 1977, and then built my first ground up Chopper in 1977, built and rode a 108 ci rigid stroker almost daily when it would hold together back then and street raced a 120 ci 2-spd top fuel stroker to suck up rice burners and take their money week after week in the late 70’s…never run on the track cause it was so much easier to shoot pool, drink beer, catch the babes, and take the money on the street.

I have a Florida State Certified General Contractors (unlimited) license (ask Cyril what the pass rate percentage is for the exam since he lives in S FL) and I managed $300 million to $400 million per year in major construction projects with upwards of 700 people under my belt throughout the Caribbean, Central and South America for 20 plus years.

I retired in 2001 (ha ha). I now own own and/or I am affiliated with several small businesses with FRIENDS not foe or hypocritical wanna bees! I do own a small multi store chain of retail stores that sells products that every household needs in multiples…this business conservatively grosses around $1.5 million annually and when the economy was good it was in excess of $5 million plus plus annually without running the road.

I am a licensed VIN authority and through my associated team we built frames and chassis kits for others in the industry that have built thousands more bikes than Brass Balls Bobbers has reported to industry peers.

However, the above is neither here or there. It is you that chimed in jumping a dear industry friend of mine that had nether pointed you out or attacked you personally to begin with until you singled him out. So in turn, you get called out…it is that simple!

I like your bikes and I like what you and your team are doing for the industry. But the vast majority of your builds are basic bar hoppers….and no more, which is quite nice because that is my next build of choice, too. However, when you build a bike like your Model 1 and then add the options to ride (not bar hop) from your Brass Balls Bobbers site, it puts you in a price point that is more than Jeff Nicklus Customs or shall we “say” an as equal?

Who’s Springer? Cost $299 or less! From where…you know!
Who’s Wheels….DNA? Costs
Frame $500 to $600…good frame though
Sportster Gas Tank? $60
Boat Trailer Rear Fender? Boaters World $15.
80 CI Evo Natural $2,200
Baker 5-spd…$900…bet I am close when bought in quanltiy
Wire Plus Wiring Harness? $150

Shall we build a spreadsheet to ascertain the costs from the tires up, right down to the fluids poured in? I need to build a spreadsheet for my next build and will be very happy to work with you (at no costs on my behalf) if you would like to share your costs and quantities?

Thanks for bringing up the fact that Easyriders/V-Twin shall we “say” sponsors their favorites. It is a known fact to industry insiders, and now, hopefully through this blog, to the general public whereas they can see that there is lots of blue sky & wiffle dust swirling around here. It has been said here before and I am sure it will be said again. You will learn that the V-Twin Expo will not warrant you attention as it may have early on.

Keep on building, but lighten up Dude. We are here to have fun….please don’t get to stressed up. Maybe you should listen to the song by the Cross Canadian Ragweed Band…. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=82V8qz_CD8c The Boys From Oklahoma?

I choose WHERE I go and WHAT I do and WHO I associate with….Others DO NOT tell me where to be and what to bring! There is a difference when a Man is Humble.

We ride (not trailer) to a lot of major and regional rallies in the SE US. If you would like for me to stop in an pat you on the ass for a job well done, rub your head and get kissy kissy with you I will be glad to…wink wink.

Please let me know about the spreadsheet above and also to stop in to see you?

Boss Hawg

You all have been in the motorcycle industry much longer than I have, but it does not make me any less passionate about making the motorcycle business a success.

The creativity that I see on other people’s motorcycles is astounding – at each show I go to, I analyze the bikes and marvel at both the artistry and the engineering ability of the builders. People who have had the foresight to build bikes that the market will buy right now are on-target for today. Anyone who can dream up a design, then build it should be proud of themselves. People who have been successful, and created the first round of the custom motorcycle industry may be choosing to leave, but that is the cycle of business. They did a great job, and also – they are capable of being successful again – even if their new success has a different flair, or is in a different field altogether. This already has happened in lots of other industries. I was a management/information technology consultant and entrepreneur for many years. When the computer consulting industry took a major hit from Indian outsourcing a few years back, many of my peers chose to build different businesses. Some built restaurants, others went back to school. The beauty of it was that they made their choices, and pursued their new passions. It may have hurt, but lots of success came after they started their new dreams.

All business segments have cycles of startup, growth, maturity, and then decline. What happens after the decline is usually a new version of the old business model. Since the old motorcycle industry business model is obviously broken within the current economic context, our mutual goal should be to determine what that new version of motorcycle business looks like. And then when we have defined what it looks like, we need to jointly hammer on our elected officials until they release us from the bondage of overregulation – at every level of government. We need to be unified to change enough laws so that we can all be more successful. The number of hoops that Tom & I had to jump through to start our business was ridiculous. The interrelationship of the insurance industry, government, and politics makes it almost impossible for an independent builder to succeed. You can NOT start a motorcycle business in the basement anymore – at least not legally. The freedom that this country was built on has been bureaucratized to the point that our ability to innovate is virtually nonexistent without a giant pile of cash, persistence and patience. I consulted to local government for years – and the lack of accountability to measurable goals is downright scary. Why should it be acceptable for a building permit to take 6 months – when the entrepreneur cannot float that long without a place to do business? We need to make government bureaucrats accountable to create an overall environment for business success. That means we need an educated, motivated workforce – and in case you haven’t noticed, that isn’t what we have here anymore. And the Feds should not be permitted to ‘own’ any part of a corporation…not ever.

This is a problem for all American businesses – it is not just a problem for our industry. We have a huge opportunity to work together to change the way we define the motorcycle business, and change the way we look at the marketplace. Perhaps along the way, we’ll even fix the completely jacked-up distribution channel so local motorcycle shops can survive too. Have you all competed with manufacturer pricing lately? We have…forget about eBay… the people making American parts are so desperate to make money that they sell to our customers at the same price they sell to their dealers. And they don’t enforce their MAP pricing either because they’re paying their rent selling to the eBAY sellers. They’ve eaten the distribution channel alive.

If anyone is interested in more dialogue about any of this we are on twitter as artinmotionllc

Ride Safe! And don’t forget why you love motorcycles and motorcycling and building.

Christi Kapp (a.k.a. “Den Mother”)
http://www.ArtInMotionLLC.com

I can’t believe you are still at it. Jeff and I said our peace and moved on. Someone told me you attacked my character and I just had to get on here one more time.

Listen, unless you know me personally, you don’t know my character. It is easy to say stuff about people when you hide behind a CB radio/internet name. Why don’t you tell us all your real name, where you live and what you do… or don’t you have the balls to do it. People know it is me when giving my opinion. They know where I am and what I do.

Secondly, thanks for giving the link to the V-Twin awards so that everyone could see. That was very nice. But clearly you did not understand what I was saying. You or someone on this thread insinuated that people who win awards like this are the advertisers of the magazine or somehow pay people off. I was merely stating that I did not pay to advertise or exhibit with V-Twin. My bike was there because they asked me to bring it. The award was given perhaps because they liked it.

Unless you have seen and ridden our bikes head to head with any other builder’s bike, how can you make an intelligent decision about them? There are a lot of very talented builders in our industry who build fantastic bikes. I am honored to be in such a great industry. I am sure Jeff’s bikes are fine bikes, but you are making claims similar to what started this all to begin with. Don’t slam my bikes or my character.

AND if making a high quality American bike and offering it at a price the average Joe can afford is “whoring out”, than we have different views on helping people who want to get out and ride a cool bike. Sure I would like to charge more, hence make more money… but I choose to make less to help others.

Dar

RE:
“…Jeff you may be a tiny bit too Republican for my European sensibilities…”

I think you’ll find Jeff is a Conservative by choice and only a Republican by necessity.

There’s a hell of a difference.
But it typically only becomes apparent to those who are grounded in Reality.

-nicker-

Boss Hawg

Nothing personal…I admire your work. It is the “fairy faces” of the world that work their back door voodoo, as they think….shall we say while running under the radar with backdoor deals through their respective company’s auspices. Chris….I implore you to take look as an investigative reporter would…you may be quite surprised to see just who may have owned what, at no costs, from advertisers while they have been employed as an “editor in chief” for some of the mags being discussed here.

This industry is starving for new talent attention when it should be writing about the Men that Built the Industry and are still here in it.

Dar….I like your Bobbers, however, you and Jeff Nicklus are simply not in the same class of builders nor character as men. Jeff is one of the very limited esteemed builders and duly licensed manufacturers that does act like a whore…he produces a much better motorcycle dollar for dollar than you do!!!

Furthermore….to paraphrase your quote, Dar, “Their parent company puts on the V-Twin Expo….nor have I exhibited there.”

Did I miss something here? http://www.vtwin-expo.com/dealer/winners.htm “Production Bobber of the Year Classic Bobber, Darwin Motorcycles”

Boss Hawg

.

What?
You and Rodney King wann-a know “why we all can’t just get along”…..????
Well, that should be obvious…… Because we’re Human, that’s why.

And humanity will get along without a hitch…… when pigs fly.
(or when Obama’s health care plan requires a frontal labotamy at birth)

RE:
“…The biggest problem the USA ,UK and a number of other countries have is you got rogered by your banks…”

No, we got “rogered” (?) by our Liberal politicians who tried to game the system by forcing banks to make very questionable (politically correct) loans.

The banks simply took that “unfortunate mandate” one step further and made those bad loans available to every segment of the economy.

-nicker-

Over and Over ; David

How about “Nice bikes…I like the look” or “Man, how do you make any money making a bike of that quality with all those components?”

This industry is so much smaller than this and you guys have to go with the pissing contest…astonishing. You guys are both talented builders and should be thankful that you are on the other side of each other’s styles.
Piss on all the bolt-on bike builders of the last 5 years all you want, but indulge in the talent of both old and new….there’s some good things still going on around this industry and there’s plenty of room for ANYBODY that is still around after this mess of a year.

Now’s the time when you come up from under the water of the sinking ship to see who made it through…a little common bond, and a lot of thankfulness will go a lonnnng way in getting this industry back in shape.

I’m calling Johnny Pag to get involved in this. Maybe he can straighten it all out.

Oh…and Chris…thanks for the article…good reading.

On a few points some of you cats were kinda rough on each other…. GOOD! Someone should come around and check all of us once in a while, just like when some of you threw around the magazine word. It didn’t hurt my feelings cause I know where I stand. I will lose and advertiser over the truth, turn one away over principals and fight to the death for one that is right. The last thing that motivates me to get up every morning and work my ass to the bone is money, because there ain’t none in publishing. But I will tell you this, that “Editor In Chief” title is one that I earned and I’m damn proud of it. Those words men that I own what I print. I don’t put my name on someone else’s risk, this is my magazine and I put it all on the line every thirty days so in that regard I feel like I am in the same boat as a lot of the business here in the states right now.

Just remember the foundation of all we stand on today….. they are not so simple words from a nation of simple men……

Preamble of the Constitution:

“We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.”

Declaration of Independence:

“We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.”

Thank you all for participating in my sociology experiment titled
“Will they still uphold the Constitution?”

I have to believe that Chris’ point was that we all as consumers and business people can do our part to lift up American companies and support our own economy where ever we are. It is nothing new for big business to cheat the system and gouge the consumer. And most times it feels like it is government’s intention is to just gouge us all. Insurance, Health Care, it’s all a mess. It is a long road to try and fix those problems. One thing I hate almost as much as the companies that overcharge for their services like insurance and health care are the people who cry FREE HEALTH CARE FOR ALL!

Seriously! Just give us quality options provided by companies who actually give you the service you pay for. Who can argue with that?

I also believe the intent of his letter is to motivate people to support Mom and Pop not Wally World on a day to day basis. In our industry we should try to support the S&Ss, the Baker Drivetrains when we can rather than the Szechwan Transmissions and Teriyaki V-Twin. Certainly not to get into pointless pissing matches about who builds a better more affordable motorcycle using the most American made parts. Come on guys rise about it all.

As an American parts manufacturer we are pretty proud that thus far we work with all American based companies to put out American Made parts. Is it hard? It can be but not impossible. I pray we continue to be able to do the same for a long time.

One last rant! I’m already typing too much already but here I go.

Support your local shop, Brick and Mortar People! You know, your local parts dealer who has a face behind the parts counter. Ebay stores and faceless internet stores have created consumers who think everything has to be cheap to be affordable. Don’t get me wrong. There are plenty of quality businesses operating on the internet. But there are several piss poor retailers out there on the net.

As a parts manufacturer nothing is more irritating than to have to fix the problems created by a faceless retailer from the internet. Time and time again we exchange parts and answer questions for customers who buy the wrong parts or get damaged parts from an online retailer who has no intention in satisfying the customer.

Come on! You’re suppose to buy someone’s old priceless junk you can’t live without from eBay not new cars and jumbo plasma screen TVs.

Online retailers sell with very little margin and rely on volume sales to make their profit. Then offer no service after the sale if the customer purchased the wrong part or gets a part damaged by the shipper or by the consumer themselves. We do our best to help those customers to get what they hoped they had paid for many times at our loss. It costs money to have staff to answer the phone and provide technical support and customer service. When you buy stuff as cheap as you can you should be prepared to get burned. And don’t cry when you do. If you pay a premium price you should expect premium service. And don’t get it twisted either. We are not perfect, mishaps happen. Manufacturing defects, miss ships, you name it things happen. But when we make errors we try our best to fix the problem as quickly as we can.

I’m certainly not trying to make excuses for anyone but when has Cheapest on the Net, Discounted, Below Dealer Cost, Close Out pricing, Cut Throat Pricing been synonymous with getting a warm fuzzy feeling that as a consumer makes you think to yourself “I’m going to get what I want with the best possible customer service as cheap as possible right now!” click .

Right now on eBay I type Klock Werks and I get three pages of parts for sale. Not one of those listings is from Klock Werks. I clicked on one item which happens to be a cad image of a brand new fuel tank dash we designed of which we are just starting to create inventory. The picture of the part they are trying to sell does not exist on a dealer shelf anywhere. Anywhere. It’s brand new! But there it is. So the description is wrong for the image shown and the description is misleading. A person could very easily purchase the part and find that it does not fit their motorcycle because the item they are were sold will only fit certain years of HD touring bikes. But the customer will still assume that the part will fit their motorcycle because the retailer has told them it will. Or has not told them it won’t. How ever you want to look at it. Either way, when it doesn’t fit who will the customer and the online retailer blame? I know the answer will be Klock Werks even thought the customer was sold the wrong part by an uneducated retailer.

No mater what the product or service, be an educated consumer and buy from reputable retailers who you know have your satisfaction as one of their driving forces. And of course when at all possible try to by American.

I’d rather buy an $8 100% South Dakota corn fed beef burger from the locally owned burger joint ran by someone whose kids go to the same schools my kid goes to rather than buy a couple reconstituted $1 sliders from the big franchise joints of the world any day. I think it’s just that simple.

You stirred us up once again Wildman!

See you in a couple weeks. Much love and respect to you brother!

Peace
Joe

I really like the Brass Balls Bobbers cause thats my personal taste.Jeffs bikes I am sure are well made but not the style I prefer. You are in two different parts of the market !!
I would not expect the prices to be the same.

Is that too simple or am I simple…(Jeff is not allowed to answer that)

The biggest problem the USA ,UK and a number of other countries have is you got rogered by your banks.
They lent money to people they should not have.

The Banks are the heart of the western business system.

We had this same crap in the 80’s cause the banks were a lending money to people to buy shares and other crap they could not afford.Banks went under or actually were bailed out and then really tough rules were put in place So with tough regulation they are in good fettle here and we have been burnt ,but not as bad as It could have been
The pricks that run your banks are the problem
Just an opinion
James (Kiwi)