Nicker,
My God sometimes I laugh so hard at stuff you say I cant even type at the moment. I just got back from the shop ( 2:05 am here, I cant seem to find the time anymore to go work on my own projects due to school) and I have been studying!!!! But I have not been able to get on as much due to the writing of these stupid research papers the professors think is so damn funny to give us.

Lostdog,

22 Is the magical age for me! I see it as it only goes straight or downhill from here…Well straight until my over the hill party at 40 then downhill. I want to do is my school stuff and building my “customs” right now! Thanks for the kind words above though!!!

Dad,

Well what can I say, being on here helps me learn new words and ways of wisdom from you, Gar, Nicker etc.

RE:
“… the kid needs to be studying …”

No better place to study “sociology” then right here……
Great fodder for a term paper.

-nicker-

RE:
“…. It smells like the difference between us …”

Well, using your nose instead of your brain explains “lost dog.”

RE:
“… to scoff at the bike …”

“Scoffing’” …. Exactly where was-zat…..???….. not from me.
Hell, a Vespa with an extended front end is interesting to me.
You missed the point.
The issue was “Custom” vs “COTS assembly”
The issue is differentiating the interesting-and-engaging from the ubiquitous-and-mundane.

Now, you may well feel offended if your scooter isn’t “appreciated or recognized as a custom.”
But then, that’s your problem….. certainly no one leases.
Think about it.

RE:
“… you have a healthy dose of omnipotence in you …”

Let me explain something very simple to you.
Authority doesn’t come in “doses” it is earned.
It is principally an amalgam of one’s age, experience, ability, and intelligence.
What part of Paying Your Dues is it that you don’t understand…???

RE:
“… he’s riding it so that make him a brother to me …”

So, anyone ya park next to is “your brother”…………. ???
You’ve got a lot to learn…!!

RE:
“… those things must stink so bad …”

If you last long enough you just might learn to appreciate your own old set-a leathers,
Son, you’ve got newbie, break-in-biker written all over you.
Try less talking and more listening.

-nicker-

Dude, I didn’t even get married until I was 32 (my bride was 22 …. I robbed the cradle) and even then I was sure I was too young to get married!

Over & Out,

Jeff

Nicker, because you make uniquely singular, one-of-a-kind anything does that make you BETTER than anybody else? The point of my “who gives a rip” question was that what does it matter who rides what. Riding is a passion that is either in you or it ain’t. Your comments certainly sounds like you have a healthy dose of omnipotence in you. It smells like the difference between us is that I’m not going to scoff at the bike the guy is riding who’s parked next to me at a rally. It’s what he’s got and he’s riding it so that make him a brother to me. And my ‘devil’s advocate’ comment was solely to get people really thinking about what they purport as “custom”. On rare occasion do I see a bike that I can’t pick out a part or two (or three or four or five, etc) that I know was made by someone else or off the shelf. Lastly, if you got leathers older than me I understand why you say life ain’t a popularity contest; those things must stink so bad you’d never get a vote!

Work with me here … the kid needs to be studying for his finals coming up and not defending the good name of custom bikes, the Nicklus’ and/or Desperado!

…. and I thought I was the only bad influence in his life ….. lol

Oh well ………… as you say …. Ife ain’t a popularity contest!

Over & Out,

Jeff

RE:
“…Who gives a rip whether a guy has a uniquely singular, one-of-a-kind bike that he built himself in his garage …”

Who indeed!
How about all of us who do build “…uniquely singular, one-of-a-kind [anything]…” in our garages…. all over this country.
Out of our ranks came the likes of Ness, Nicklus…. et al.

Yes, quality is not the issue.
Unique stuff can be just as badly built as manufactured stuff. And just about anyone who doesn’t use a chisel instead of a wrench can spot junk under a glitzy paint job.

Also not at issue is the use of “COTS” (commercial off the shelf) parts.
Hell, for that matter, wheels and motor are COTS, where would any builder be without them.

Apparently you’ve confused “Execution” with “Content.”

RE:
“… Enlighten me…but be forewarned; I will ‘devil’s advocate’ your response to the degree with which it is deserved…”

Enlighten you…???
Be forewarned….???
Get Real…!!!
Dude, even an idiot knows the difference between “Art” and “Paint-by-numbers.”
I got leathers older-n you.
Go get some miles on ya before ya do any more “advocating.”
Maybe then we’ll talk about who “deserves” what.

-nicker-
P.S.
Sorry Jeff, i don’t have your patience.
Go get-em Conrad!
Life ain’t a popularity contest.

Well said brother …. Conrad just turned 22 (this last Sunday) and sometimes he does go over and above the call of duty especially when it comes to defending either me or the company ….. even when no defense is called for. I love him anyway and with time he will learn to choose his battles and know when no battle at all is called for.

I must say I was indeed impressed with the kid’s explanation of what a “custom bike” is …. Looks like college is starting to pay off after all!

Over & Out,

Jeff

So you saying because my fathers company having built over 3000 bikes that they are not quality or whatever you are getting at is false. We have one employee on one bike. We do not run a production line and our warranty rate is less than 1/2 of 1%..In stupid terms “WE BUILD OUR SHIT RIGHT”.. We build most of our parts in house and my fathers quality control is, well to be honest, so strict that if there is the slightest bit of dusk anywhere he freaks the F out and you better get the broom and the wetjet and clean that shit up fast.

But just because the company has built so many bikes doesnt mean we do not have our customs as mentioned above. With Desperado he was building 4 bikes a year. Now with his Customs only company he can build any amount he wants. He currently has a waiting list and is constantly in the shop everytime I go there. So custom is custom and production is production.. Can you be the Devils Advocate on any of this ?

I would be happy to tell you what a “customs” is. A custom is a one-off bike, a bike that is only made one time and will not be made again. Yes some parts may be the same as other bikes but the metal fabrication, the frame, the hours put into the fab and the paint. etc. Go look at some of the bikes my father and I have built as “One-Offs” You will see the difference between our Production bikes and one-off bikes. Retribution was built 2 years ago by us. It is a 2 piece frame and body work bike…..meaning the gas tank, oil tank and frame are all one piece. he Swing arm and rear fender are all one piece… The engine is a one off engine which is 149ci and produces 273 whp, diamond cut, perfect show polish, 6 speed right side drive with a tranny brake…360 vee rubber rear tire with a 2 piece billet wheel. Once we finished the Bike my father put it up in the International Bike show in Houston and it won first place along with our NRA bike taking 2nd. Since the current owner has had it here is its standings (I wont say how much money has been won eithe rbut it would honestly blow your mind):
Retribution:

8 Show Entries

8 – 1st Place in Class Awards

8 – Best Paint Awards

8 – Best Engineered Awards

7 – Best of Show Awards

The same owner also has our Bucket of Bones one-off:

Bucket of Bones Bike:

36 Show Entries:

34 – 1st Place in Class Awards

2 – 2nd Place finishes in Class Awards

6 – Best Paint Awards

3 – Best Engineered Awards

18 – Best of Show Awards

Go look at our websites or ask Cyril and the Gang. All of our Signature series bikes are one offs and will never ever be done again just like all of Cyrils bikes, Joe Martins bikes, JJs bikes. etc.

I hope this helped to enlighten you on exactly where the term “custom” is and will be officially used on a bike. Just because someone ads a set up chrome pegs and a nice Le Pera seat to their Harley does not make it a “custom”.

He is just confused because he has a one sided biased opinion. He must own either a Texas Chopper or a BD Chopper. Neither in which have anything custom to do with them besides the fact that they do not say HD on them

RE:
“… but the Big Dogs look like customs…”

A true custom scooter is unique.
How’zat square with “…[they] look like…”……….. ???

Dude, your confusing me.

-nicker-

Ok so since you are so smart tell me this. Since Sheldon is such a smart and loaded businessman (his family started COLEMAN Camping supplies) dont you think he would call it quits before it got to the way AIH did? I think not. If anything happened you know they owe some money somewhere and if they do the chapter 11 gig he could easily walk away debt free if not at least somewhat debt free.

What is your association with BDM?
Dont lie be honest.

FYI: In June we will be 14 years old. In those 14 years we have ALWAYS capped out production at 300 motorcycles per year. We have never, nor will we ever, have an assembly line style manufacturing facility like most, if not all, of the larger companies. So when I tell you that we have produced, as of this date, a total of 3,313 motorcycles …. that isn’t all bad.

Without a doubt our sales are down just like Big Dogs and every other manufacturer of any size in this industry, however, if I look at our percentage of decline of sales vs those of Big Dog or Harley for that matter, we are still well ahead of the curve. We are still working 40 hour work weeks and in fact just last week we hired 3 people back of off lay-off. We also just signed a new dealer here in Houston.

FYI: I do not now nor have I ever considered hiring anyone who has ever worked at another motorcycle company …. not good business …. they have their way of doing things and we have ours … why bring bad habits of another company through my door?

You are obviously associated with, or at least have your nose up the butt of Big Dog, so I suggest you go back to work and take care of your business in Wichita and let me take care of mine here. When this all shakes out we will see who is left standing.

Over & Out,

Jeff

Kudo’s BDM Worker – 25,000 bikes in 15 years for a startup company is impressive. I don’t see any of the commenter’s on here posting what their numbers are for the last 15 years??

Now we can start the whole custom – manufatured debate but I still view Big Dogs as custom. Hell I’ve walked into dealerships with Harleys and Big Dogs and all the Harleys look like – well – Harleys but the Big Dogs look like customs.

Big Dog is nothing like AIH. They are still here because they are making sure that they not only take care of the customers but also the DEALERS. If a brand is to survive in this economy they have to take care of the guys selling their product. These factory rebates are the reason Big Dogs are selling at my local dealership while other brands sit on the floor for months. The dealership owner has told me that if the other manufacturers would do the same thing, those bikes would sell just as fast. If the manufacturer doesn’t cut prices for the ever-bargaining consumer, how can the dealer make a sale without digging into his own pocket and cutting his profit margin? Everyone has to give a little to make a sale these days.

Good job to Big Dog and Sheldon Coleman. I look forward to seeing them around for a long time.

Moto1, the only unemployment claims for BD employees were for the last 2 weeks during the production shutdown. I know…I work at Big Dog!!! We were given the option to take personal leave to cover the time off, or file for unemployment compensation that amounted to roughly half of my normal paycheck.

Those of you who come out and bash Big Dog every time Cyril runs a BDM thread need to get a life. If you look back at the postings from recent months, any article about Big Dog produces the same old, tired coments from the same haters. Jealous?

The imminent death of Big Dog Motorcycles has been prophesized for years, and guess what…WE ARE STILL HERE! Doing what we do best: Building high-end motorcycles. 25,000 bikes on the road over 15 years should tell you idiots we must be doing something right!

KISS MY BUTT! I am hardly bashing Big Dog or any other motorcycle company with my comments herein!

Over & Out,

Jeff

As for Bob B. why are you bashing Big Dog for something a Victory dealer did and furthermore why didn’t you get gap insurance from your provider before taking delivery of the bike. I’m sorry you lost your bike but the burden of the loss falls squarely on your shoulders. Maybe you should have consulted your attorney and had them review the paperwork from the dealer BEFORE walking out the door with the bike.

Mr. Nicklus – go build some more bikes and get off the “bash BD” bandwagon, it’s getting old.

BD will be around for a long time and for everyone who keeps comparing BD to AIH – go do your homework; BD is a privately held company by a very wealthy and smart individual. AIH was owned by a bunch of clueless investors who had watched one to many Discovery shows and thought they were investing in a cash cow only to find out there is little if any profit in the big bike business. Sheldon only has to satisfy himself and no one else, he knew the risk of the business before he ever sold his first bike. He started and continues to operate the company because he loves bikes not because he’s expecting to get double-digit returns on his investment unlike AIH’s investors who started demanding their money back when they realized there was no return. Everything BD owns is paid for so whether they are producing 2 bikes a day 3 days a week (not true) or producing 3 bikes a day 5 days a week they are keeping their head above water. Sheldon didn’t run out and build a multi-million dollar factory back when bikes were selling like crazy, he stayed in his 50 year old car dealership and kept building bikes because he has 3 generations of business experience through his grandfather and father and he knows that the economy always goes up and down. He’ll build that new factory when he has the cash in the bank not borrow from the bank to build it.

I’m sorry that people are getting laid off from time to time but even the “recession proof” businesses in Wichita are laying people off. I know of a 17-year veteran test pilot at Citation that got the axe 2 months ago along with a few thousand other aircraft workers. It’s tough and unless you’re in the health care business your position is in jeopardy as well.

Keep up the good work BD, someday I will be able to afford one. It’s tough to be on the top of the hill because everyone else will take shots at you.