Since the Basic Rider Course was made mandatory on July 1, 2008, the price of the course has increased an average of $50 in less than 3 months time.

All Floridians are concerned about motorcycle safety but the new mandatory status of the BRC may potentially cause more harm than good. This mandate is an obvious benefit to the training schools that keep increasing their prices, but the high cost of the course ($250 average in central Florida) may actually be a deterrent to many individuals, who will instead choose to opt out altogether and take their chances riding without the training or the endorsement. Whereas before the mandate, the low cost of the state initiated written and driving test did not deter individuals from demonstrating at least minimum competency.

I would be glad to hear others’ thoughts on this as well as recommendations that can be made to our state lawmakers regarding this matter.

Thanks-
Fish

Can anyone tell me why, if it was so important for the public safety of Floridans as known in June 2006 that this law was put in limbo for two years until it became effective? If it was so important for the safety of Floridian motorcycle riders to need the M$F training, why did they put it on hold for two years? Am I missing something? Does anyone know the background why this occurred? I would think the M$F would have been pushing hard to get the law passed and effective immediately.

I thoroughly enjoyed reading the posts on this site. I agree that dirt bike riding is a great precursor and proving ground before street legal riding. Wishing you all the best.

All crashes are preventable IMHO…

Jim

RE:
“…180 HP for 170 kg. So you can imagine what that would give if an 18-year-old buys such a “bomb” and have to learn himself to drive it…”

Ya, that’s a real problem.
And yes, the traffic today is more dangerous here also.

-nicker-

Bye, Gustian

The school-info is of course also for older-ones (more than18 years) who do not have a driver’s license at all or had their driver’s license for a car after 01/01/1989.

Gustian

Back in time, my father was a biker and from him I learned a lot of things, from driving-essentials to technical parts. Over here, the schools are teaching the students the things that some parents or relatives cann’t do or don’t have the time for it anymore.
Theorie, first practice on private terrain, and then practice on the public road. The public-road-practice is constantly followed by the monitor. That is one of the most important parts of the teaching (in practice part B in the “real world”) , and I must say, me also, I approve this verry much.
I heard from many of my friends who had their son or daughter doing the motorschool, that they were very enthousiast about it, and have passed the final tests without problems. So …………..

As for point 8, the corner in both dry and wet surface, they simply have a part of the private schoolterrain made wet with a firehose. And yes, they are also trying to prepare as much as possible the student with videofilms (both real or simulated)

We can’t tell if our system is “the best ” or “one of the best”, but I think (and also from what I heard from students themselves) it’s a good thing.
Of course, you can tell beter than me the difference between the” American Motor-scene” and the “European-one”. You lived in both of these “worlds”.
Over here, we are also more into sportbikes than in Amerca. Not to forget they are over here in Belgium full-powered (France and Germany restricted to 100 HP) For example, Honda Fireblade and Yamaha R1 have about 180 HP for 170 kg. So you can imagine what that would give if an 18-year-old buys such a “bomb” and have to learn himself to drive it……………………

See ya,

Gustian

1. the info I gave is stricktly for young people (for example 18 years old) who want to start driving a motorbike.
There are a few exeptions, for example if you do already have a driver’s license for a car, you are at least 24 years old and are driving yet 2 years with a car. Then you may drive a motorbike with a maximum of 125 cc with less than 25 KW. You don’t have to do all those tests.
But as I said, only 125 cc and max 25 Kilowatt.

2. Yes, everybody else must make the same test, ordered by the Government. The schools must also be apporved by the Government.

3.To speak for myself, I can’t tell you if the fact I teached myself to drive is better than the classroom. As you know (you lived in Europe to) over here we rode a bike as our only “transporting vehicle”. The traffic in those years (I was 18 years old back in 1974) is not to compare with the traffic anno 2008. I must also say that I drove already a bike (VILLIERS 250 CC) when I was bearely 11 years old, but that was in the yard behind our home. I was lucky, I lived in the country by then. So I knew how to drive a bike.
That’s why I personaly think it’s better that in these day’s, with more traffic and more powerfull
bikes, it’s good to go to school.

Man that is some ordeal.
And everyone takes the same (Government?) classroom test…?
OK, since you never took that test, you obviously learned how to ride another way.
So, do you think the classroom experience is better than how you learned…?
Is the current testing system worth the cost….?
Are there any meaningful statistic to show how effective the teaching/testing process is…?

I have to say, having the tester follows the student in a real world driving scenario is a great way to evaluate a rider’s “street smarts.”

RE:
“…8. Taking a curve (on both dry and wet surface) , accelerating and stopping within a limited distance…”

Interesting. So, how do they do the wet test?
Is there training for that in the classroom first?

Great info.
Thanks again.

-nicker-

the practical test.

This is a test to see if you really can controle your bike and, if you know the rules of the road.

Part A; Test on private terrain.

first tree points without motor running:

You enter the examination spot (private terrain) and park your bike in the start-zone. (turn off motor)
1. Precautions before you get of your bike (that seams for many of us stupid, but it’s not. If you knew how many beginners get of their bikes and forget to put the side-stand)
2. Controles before starting (you have to wear European improved helmet, gloves, vest with long sleaves, normaly trauses or overall, and boots covering the ankles (not All-Stars converse)
Controle of the bike. Showing your examinator that you know what all the “buttons and bells” of your bike stand for. (control-warning lamps for example, emergency-stop of the engine etc…..
3. Maneuvering the bike without the motor is turning. U-turn backwords for example. Controle the mass of the bike (under-estimated by to many of the beginners)

Then we come to the “active” part (real driving)
4. slalom, controle of the mass in motion, looking “into the corner”, balance on low speed, control of throttle, use of the right gear, use of the brakes etc
5. driving an “eight” , driving left-turns immediatly followd by right turns.
6. Making turns at a speed of minimum 30 km/hour (= about 20 miles/hour) and avoiding a sudden obstacle. Checking if the driver uses the brakes with precision.
7. Driving at low speed on a straight line
8. Taking a curve (on both dry and wet surface) , accelerating and stopping within a limmited distance.

This is followed by

part B ; driving on the public road.

You are driving your bike, followed by the examinator (connected by a radio-system).
The examinator is telling you where to drive and what to do. (Special attention on respecting the rules of the road).
As long as the examintor doesn’t say anything, your go straight on.
NO WAY THE EXAMINATOR MAY SET UP A CONFUSING SITUATION ! ! ! (for example telling the pupil to turn to the left if it is forbidden)
The examinator will look especially how you anticipate different traffic-situations, speed, correctly taking your turns, respecting the road-signs etc.

When finishing all this……………………, you’re happy ! !

I hope this will give you a bit of an idea how it’s over here on the “old continent” getting this license.
I explained what it’s about in Belgium, but from what I saw, that’s also the system in most of the European countries.

Your’s truely

Gustian

so here’s part 2

After you passed the test with succes, this is valid for a period of 3 years to get your practical part.

1.As a preparation for your practical test, you can follow an 8 hour court in a school and are supposed to do the practical-test within the same 3 years that follows the positive theorie-test.
2. Or you take an 6 hour court in the same school and drive 12 months with a temporary driver’s license. You are not allowed to take a passenger, you are not allowed to drive for commercial purposes, you are not allowed to drive you bike on friday-saturday and sunday after 22.00 pm untill 06.00 hours am. This is also the rule on official hollidays (like you have for example july the 14th). This is to avoid the so called weekend-crasches caused by young unexpierenced drivers. (This is for drivers below 24 years old.)
You are suposed to have a blue ” L-sign” at the back of your bike that shows you are “learning” to drive. This temporary license is valid for the period of 12 months.
But whatever you do, in both cases, you are suposed to do your practical test within the 3 years following the time you passed succesfully your theory test.

*** I forgot, the theorie lessons are about the rules of the road of course, but also about security equipment, like gloves, boots, helmet, gogles, collors of the clothes you’re wearing etc. Special attention also on the specific risks when driving in different weather conditions, slippery parts of the roads when it rains, tramway rails etc. ) Also a part “get to know your bike” (the technical part). For example the importance of checking the oil level, chain-tention, good working of the (stop)lights etc.

as promissed, I’ll try to explain as good as possible what it takes over here in Belgium (and in most of the European countries) to get the driver’s license, so called license A.

First of all, it doesn’t matter how old you are or if you can prove any insurance policy, covering whatever amount of medical benefits to wear or not to wear a helmet. Over here in Europe, you have to wear a (european security label improved) helmet.

For the lucky b*stards like me (born in 1956) , who had their driver’s license B (for a car) before 01/01/1989, we may drive any motor cycle, without limit in cubic inch or power. ( I am not discussing if that’s good or bad).

I will resume what an 18-year old guy or girl has to do to get his/her driver’s license “A” (motorcycle).

1. First of all, he or she has to be at least 18 years old minus 3 months to start the “theorie school”.
That takes a 12-hours court in an improved driver’s-school, and an examination at the end. You can repeat these lessons (and tests) unlimited. (if you failed at first)
2.You don’t take court and learn it by yourself, and you make the theorie- test (also without limit)
(you are getting 50 questions, you have to have 41 of them correc

Thanks for the link, good stuff, that.

It’s scary how quickly people are willing to give up control of their own lives for “benefits.”
damn near makes ya wanna-puke.

-nicker-

RE:
“…but if there isn’t a mandatory riding class, what is the solution…”

Sounds to me like you found one “years ago” when you first started riding:
when you “just kept getting [your] temporary permit ) and continued to drive around”

Sounds like a perfectly good solution to me….what’s the beef…???

RE:
“… had it not been mandatory I know me…, I probably would have wanted to take the easy way and just get a motorcycle…”

So, what your saying is because you need a nanny to tell ya what to do, the rest of us are supposed to roll over for the same crap….?????

RE:
“…. I am glad that it was made mandatory……. but for me it isn’t a political issue…”

Well, by insisting that everyone do what you need, by definition you’ve made it political.
….BIG TIME…!!!

-nicker-

I’m not sure where all this stuff that the Government does “for my own good” is gonna stop…???

Knowing human nature, i suspect that is won’t stop. And there in lies the problem.

-nicker-

Parental Authority: Grounded
July 10, 2008

A daughter sues her father for grounding her. A court agrees that the punishment was too severe. The court overrules father, overturns punishment. What?

This is happening in Canada. So it’s not anything we in the States need worry about. Yet.

I didn’t quite believe this story at first. But it’s true. The unnamed 12-year-old was forbidden to go on a field trip because she disobeyed rules about her use of the Internet. She chatted on websites that her father had tried to block. And she posted pictures of herself that he regarded as inappropriate. He says this is simply her latest misconduct.

Justice Suzanne Tessier of the Quebec Superior Court acts as if grounding your child were tantamount to child abuse. And how dare Dad be concerned about online predators and such!

The lawyer for the father, Kim Beaudoin, says it’s the job of parents to set boundaries. Er, yes. Of course it’s the job of parents to raise their own children, not the state’s job. Or does Judge Tessier believe that a bureaucrat should be installed in every home, lugging a hefty manual stipulating exactly when a parent may send Timmy to his room?

Should a judge who would make such a ludicrous, totalitarian decision even be allowed to remain on the bench? At the very least, Tessier should be spanked. And no TV for the rest of the week.

This is Common Sense. I’m Paul Jacob.
http://thisiscommonsense.com

WE FINALLY AGREE ON SOMETHING. The planets must be in alignment. The UN, in my humble opinion, should be closed down or at the very least shipped out of the USA to some country, lets say Ethiopia. We as a country should withdraw from the UN IMMEDIATELY.

Anthony Kennedy has been an Associate Justice of the U.S. Supreme Court since 1988. Appointed by Republican President Ronald Reagan, he acts as the Court’s swing vote in many cases, and he has, consequently, held special prominence in many politically charged 5–4 decisions. I therefore believe he is not an overwhelming threat to our gun rights. Hopefully I am correct in my assessment of Justice Kennedy.

I myself served a tour in scenic South Viet Nam. In country in 1968. So welcome home brother.

Gar Out

Sorry for the spelling error,my grammar coach forgot to tell me to check my spelling before I turn in my papers.

Im sorry but if you are that insecure and unstable maybe you should see a doctor, which has BEEN trained by a COURSE about being a doctor at MINIMUM,that is capable os sending some correct treatment your way. Why is it that when you are bitch slapped you cant just tuck your tail between your legs and go home to your mom and cry wolf? I mean come on here man its a flippin blog, not an inquiry to the Chicago Tribune. Chill the F out dude, its not a big deal and maybe if you are going to take this to heart you should sign off and never come back you wont be missed, nor would Gar or I. So go back to High School,I thought I was done with that shit a long time ago yetfeel like I am a junior all over again with your constant bickering over bullshit.

So heed my warning, call Gar or I out, I dont give a God damned. BUT This is bullshit, we are here to voice our thoughts not have a huge debate on who has more money in the bank. Yea Rolex this Ferrari that, they are just objects and prove nothing as to how a person is. I drive a Mercedes not a Hyundai are you goin got judge me even harsher now? I mean come on grow the flip up guys.

Gar, I agree with you a 100% here. I dont feel as if this is worth my time nor yours. I am done posting on this stupid MSC shit after this PARAGRAPGH is done.

To finish up here with the nagging nannies which have set me off at 4am, im awake cleaning up my place awaiting the arrival of my mom and dad!, I am sick of the shit.

RC, I did a little study of my own at work. I have 5 guys that are coworkers of mine who ride bikes to work. 3 of which have ridden since they were kids, one of which is 47 the other two are in their mid 30s. They told me they learn more about riding and laws in the 2 day class than they did in 20+ years of riding bikes. The other 2 are my agae, around 22 yrs old. They also told me the riders safety course could be a potential lifesafer. They learned laws, signs, rules and regualtions all in a 2 day period. So RC I would say that my STUDIES have been succesful and now I can say I have read my shit I have read your shit and everyone elses SHIT. I am done with you and this MSC commentary. I have way better things to do than sit here and hear you and your debonair group of friends argue and bitch about who has a higher net worth and/or who has a bigger double wide. I am sorry I must be more grown up than all of you, at the ripe old age of 21.

Goodnight to all

Gar, keep bitch slapping everyone for me on this commentary while I further my education with things that are far more important.

Conrad

Sorry, i missed your very important post….

RE:
“…there is already talk of now passing a law that would make it Mandatory to go back to school every so many years to keep your license. …”

And so it appears…. the very “slippery slope”….
So, what else will they come up with…????

How about mandatory parenting classes, because bad parents sure as Hell cost society more than scooter crashes.

IMHO
-nicker-

Well, as a ” sworn officer of the court ” you should be damned concerned about Justice Kennedy.
That decision was a 5-to-4, not quite a slam dunk. Although i agree that it set a precedent in basing it’s decision on the “individual We” as opposed to the “collective we,” i’m not as sanguine as you about the ability of the Constitution to survive a Liberal, activist court.

“…It literally would take a Constitutional Amendment before firearm possession by a citizen could become illegal…”

No, it would simply take the globalists in this country subordinating us to the International Court.
Hell, how is your swearing to uphold the constitution any different than a soldier who swears to serve the United states of America, and then finds himself in a UN uniform…..????
And we both know what happened to the Kid who refused to sew on those blue UN patches.

Moreover, we both know what Clinton did with his “Presidential Orders.”

Those bastards at the UN and the “usefull idiots”…… oops, i mean “intelectuals” being turned out by our school systems are intent on introducing the “internationalism” that H.G. Wells advocated:

“… the replacement for duty to one’s country and the Constitution by the idea of a cosmopolitan duty…”

Well, you may be ready to “… box them up, with all of my other possessions, and move out of the country…” but as a naturalized immigrant who serve two combat tures in Vietnam, i’m not ready to give up my wonderfull, addopted country.

-nicker-

Article V of the Constitution prescribes how an amendment can become a part of the Constitution. While there are two ways, only one has ever been used. All 27 Amendments have been ratified after two-thirds of the House and Senate approve of the proposal and send it to the states for a vote. Then, three-fourths of the states must affirm the proposed Amendment.

The other method of passing an amendment requires a Constitutional Convention to be called by two-thirds of the legislatures of the States. That Convention can propose as many amendments as it deems necessary. Those amendments must be approved by three-fourths of the states.

Guess what? “We The People” will have the final say in Gun Ownership. Guns will always be legal in the United States. The subject of a Constitutional Amendment will not pass either house, as long as we keep the Democrats out of office.

To answer your question however, I will say this – as a sworn officer of the court I swore to uphold the Constitution and the Laws of The United States of America, therefore if a Constitutional Amendment was indeed passed and enacted into law, and I will not break the law, therefore I would be mandated to take my guns and box them up, with all of my other possessions, and move out of the country. I rest assured, however, that scenario will never present itself to me so I have no need to set and wring my hands in paranoia.