Pop, I agree with you on so many levels. I love my Injun too. Did 700 miles last weekend and man was it perfect.

The part where we part company is about the battles bein’ over - they will never end. If not Indian it will be someone - all the time…. Nor should they be over. That is what makes for “progress” AND - in these cases - tugs at the motorcycling fans heartstrings for a return - maybe only in name - to the days of yore. Doesn’t mean I can afford to go out and buy every new incarnation - but I can root them on through brand identification and hope they make a go of it. When they and I get to a product/price point that makes me ready/willing and able - that will be the model for me. I hope there are as many Dr. Marks out there as they need to get ‘er done. So I guess my fire under me is always on “simmer” until I turn up the heat!! LOL

Until then, ride on Indian, ride on.

The year that Indian seperated the truehearts from the wannabes.

Sorry big guy. I just can’t cross that Rubicon with ya. If I had no Indians, a new Indian would light a fire under me, but like you, I have fought the Gilroy battles of the Indian wars. Where we part company is when I look in the shed I feel like my side won.

I’ve been a rider for nearly 35 years, and these bikes impressed me in a way that VERY few pieces of machinery EVER have. The attention to detail was unbelievable. They told me that of the 1200 major and minor assemblies on the bike, 1100 of them are either totally new or completely re-engineered.

Some of the interesting bits: there are NO ELECTRICAL RELAYS ANYWHERE. (No more starter relay issues! Yes!) The OBD-II computer system: It’s adaptive…it adjusts the tuning to your personal riding style. Nikasil cylinders…NO CYLINDER SLEEVES! This tech has been used in automobiles, but never in motorcycles.
(Some)People in the Indian community were bitching because there was ‘no movement’ in the new company. Well, obviously, they’ve spent that time studying the problems with the old PP100 motor…and not only fixed them…they went WAY further.
They took the right approach, in my opinion. They didn’t rush another warmed-over Harley clone or a re-hash of the Gilroy bikes to market…like some wanted to do…they took their time. The product they are putting out is simply amazing. I’ve seen it. UP CLOSE and PERSONAL.

They aren’t kidding. This WILL be the ‘Bentley of Motorcycles’.

The “ownership experience” is going to be like nothing in the motorcycle world currently. It will be more like what you experience when you buy a very high-end car. As I understand it, just like Porsche or Rolls, you will have the option of taking delivery at the factory. There, you will get to meet and shake hands with the two craftsman who hand-built your motorcycle. That’s right. TWO. That’s it. Your bike will be built by two master mechanics, who will roll your bike through 25 assembly stations. There is no ‘assembly line’ here.
You will have an opportunity, then, to test ride it, and then the factory technicians will make adjustments to your suspension, clutch, brake and so forth, to accomodate you, personally. Your tastes, your ergonomics. They will be able to do all this because they will only be making about TWO BIKES A DAY. (At least initially, anyway.) A MAXIMUM of 750 bikes per YEAR. Harley makes more than that in one MORNING, before the day shift takes their first coffee break.

They plan on expansion. There will be more bikes, and more affordable bikes. The Scout next. Maybe a touring bike, and eventually, maybe even a full-on Sportbike. But now, they are concentrating on their flagship. The Chief. It’s the bike that built the Indian legend, and they HAVE to get it right. Really, they have to get it perfect. After the mistakes of the past, nothing else will do.

How do I know all this?

I saw the bikes.
I sat on them.
I rode with them.
I spoke to the factory brass, for a long, long time.

And then I drank the Kool Aid.

I ordered a 2009 Chief. A Vintage. Turquoise and White.

No, it’s not cheap.
It’ll be the most expensive motorcycle I’ve ever owned.

It means many, many overtime hours.
Many, many long nights, and weekends, and holidays.
But you know what?
To me, it’ll be worth every damn second of that hard work.
Because I love Indians, and I have since I was 19.
Because I believe in what they are doing, and how they are doing it.
Because I’m putting my money where my mouth is.
Because I think I am going to get to be a small part of something historic and special.
Because I think that one day, many years from now, I’ll hand her keys to a grandson, and tell him: “Take good care of her, son. She’s special. She’s a limited edition, from the very first year of production at King’s Mountain, way back in 2009….”

“The year Indian came back for good.”

I still like the green… but then again I liked the blue Oh hell I like them all. Decisions decisions LOL

We too went to the Rally last year Last year was bigger than this last one. I think alot of it was because of the high-priced gasoline which Will make alot more people choose the Motorcycles over SUVs

I think 3rd times a charm for American made Indians.

Shut up and ride is good damn advice anytime and it’s even better advise here. Thanks for the reminder OBB.

Rant off.

Dan, I’m actually playing a little bit of devils advocate. I’m good with the current marketing strategy. It’s a sensible approach in a soft market. I see where a CPA bought IronHorse and his plan is to sell limited edition high end bikes. Same song, different beat. I am honestly concerned that KM might be swayed into a complacency that is a buzzkill for innovation and expansion into other markets. Stellican is using their tried and true method of pumping up the quality and cost of tarnished brands like Riva yachts and CrisCraft. I don’t see a thing wrong with that piece of it. The next step on the boat end has been to grow the sales by streamlining production and increasing units. That’s where I worry that they will try to continue the boat thing into two wheeled territory. Bikes and boats have similarities but they have differences as well and if KM sets it’s hat to feed the high rollers first and foremost they are forsaking the biggest piece of the motorcycle pie.

One bad Bitch ,
Hey sorry for the bad taste but This guy is talking trash and I for one protect what I believe in. Nice Scooter Clothes shop by the way I have a couple of your teeshirts.
*******************************************************

Ed,
Why did you type all that buffalo chips to avoid my question ? What color were the Indians? Pretty piss poor B.S. if you ask me.

You didn’t even know they were there until I said something about it. You are ate up with the dumbass! “50 feet away” Riiiiiiiiight! LMAO
How the hell was you able to tell which was the Gilroys at the distance from the KM?

I was not only at the IRIP drinking the kool-aid with the rest of the brothers and sisters, which this was the largest one yet.
I went to the Branson Ralley and I seen 4 Indians myself my chief, Rosie’s Chief, a couple whom had bought the gel pad and then one which was getting the Gilroy horn removed. The total amount of bikes I had seen while I was there was possibly 350 bikes.

To be perfectly honest with you…Ed you were never a freind. Friends don’t disrespect others as you had done here with me. I asked you a question and you insult me. With friends like that who the hell needs enemies?

That is your history… you and I never had none. You had never ridden by my side as a friend or a brother. I had only met you three times? Once at Cassody and then twice at IRIP. Last year and the previous.

I don’t even know you well enough to call you a friend to be perfectly honest. Aquantince, yeah maybe. But as for the best friend… Not even close I am very particular with who I count as my friends. Sorry dude if I burst your bubble.

Yes The brothers of Iron Indian are my friends and my family. You’ve distanced yourself from some of the most honest and generous people I had ever known. Your loss not mine.

Go wallow in your self pity.I have no time for you.

Cassody??? Not anytime soon! Other things more important in my life for the time being.
But Thanks for the heads up!** makes mental note** “Avoid the Dumbass.
Eat my dust!
Gone riding.

Ed,
You know I just thought of some thing. It took me a couple days to get back to my computer Any hoos How come you didnt mention seeing the bikes in Branson until after I made mention of the bikes were there & you say you were 50 ft away?
Let me ask you this, what colors were the bikes? And which ones ran? Black walls or white walls on the tires? I personally don’t think you were even in Branson to be perfectly honest. So there for Proove me wrong. PUT UP or SHUT UP.

I await you answer.

Cyril, I apologize for this post. It’s just KC CHEEF has a history of running his mouth and this is a classic example of his true colors. If you feel this must be removed than so be it.
Thank you,
Bobcat

Sorry bobcat–I was at Branson.
Attended the Branson Rally with a number of friends I had visiting that Rally.
Just to be sure you understand?
I did NOT attend the IRIP.
Been there done that.
In fact?
Me and a friend were the first people to ever attend an IRIP–him and I went there a week early to help plan some rides there.
That is a FACT–and spin won’t change a FACT.
I went to the BRANSON Rally to observe the Biker Build off at the Rock Ride Remember Rally.

Had a blast.

Funny thing?
The Rock Ride Remember Rally is the largest event in the State of Missouri that weekend.

I’ll estimate 4 to 5000 motorcycles run through there in the 4 days it is held.
I know there were maybe 100 Indian Motorcycles in Branson that weekend attending IRIP
and I only saw three at the RRR Rally.

Mine–another bike that entered the show–and a third whose rider told me he had attended IRIP last year and once was enough.

I’m sure there were more–but I just missed seeing them.

Kind of funny to me that you INDIAN faithful huddled together to stroke the factory and each other when you had a perfect chance to show up at a typical Harley Style Rally and show off what you ride.

Kind of funny that KM Indian hid out there NEW CHIEF rather than getting it out to show the Harley boys what they were bringing to the table.

And?
If you still don’t believe I was in Branson?
Ask your good friend Faggotyliar if I was there.
I tried to get him to come have a little talk at one point, and he turned and RAN into the Gazebo at HFs resort.

As far as what you might believe?
Honestly–it doesn’t concern me in the least.
You’ll jump on me today, and in a month or two you’ll be my best friend again.
That is pretty much your history in a nutshell.

As for Power Stroke enjoying his ride home?
Correct me if I’m wrong–but I don’t believe PS attended Branson.
Kind of a far ride for him–and I’m not sure he’d be up to a ride that far away from home.

You INDIAN FAITHFUL stroked each other and the factory for a whole damn week, and isolated yourselves–was the kool aid served a flavor to your liking?

Hey Henry–as far as me being an embarrassment?
How many miles you have on your Indian?
Or are you one of those folks that are ‘gonna” have one someday?
I will agree with you on the point that what I say does not count–but if you get around a little-different forums and blogs you’ll soon see that what I say is not an isolated opinion.
Lot of folks beginning to doubt what they see coming off the mountain.
As far as “listening”
Get out and “listen” to other opinions that might differ from your Kool aid site–might surprise the hell out of you.

Enough people saw him trolling to verify his presence, and of course even if he wasn’t there Bobcat, he would still be able to tell you what was what due to the fact that enough trolls show up on both sites to give a complete description as to what was shown.

Bottom line is that it doesn’t really matter what Ed thinks, he is a closed minded fool and an embarresment to the Indian motorcycle community.

much like last year with the steve’s, I spent a good bit of time with Mark and Chris (including my first ride in a big rig..well medium rig) and got to talk in depth about all things indian, harley, families, reason’s for coming to indian, the team, the 09 line, future lines, used office furniture, weather, long hours at the shop, design cues/decision, duration/endurance testing…will the 105 fit in a gilroy frame, the factory, dealerships, etc etc….i was writing an article for smoke signals, but since that’s a limited audience, i think i’ll post it on my site..maybe here w/Cyril’s permission?
KC and John..if you think Chris and Mark (and the Steve’s) don’t have a passion for the brand, you are sorely mistaken…

KC..I actually went to branson w/a closed mind thinking i would not like the new bikes..WOW..was i surprised..the bikes are aesthetically similar to Gilroy bikes, but they are even more refined. The dash and tank. are extremely sexy…the details in the small parts are great…the trick adjustable clutch and brake levers…the smart , yet retro speedo…the strong, dependable charging and electronics…

there’s so much new on these bikes (as compared to Gilroy)…some things maybe gilroy would have come up with….most things gilroy would have never even thought of…
I have a ton of pics…the 2 emissions bikes sitting still, the black bike in action….i even got to “ride” one myself..

i didn’t like ALL the changes for my taste, but in general, the changes all make sense…

as for the primary..it’s the same as the gilroy, with a change in shape to the inspection cover cutout.. it looks good on the chiefs…i like the round gilroy inspection cover for the vintage…there’s nothing “jappish” on the bikes i saw..

I just got another notebook..as soon as i get all the software i need loaded i’ll get the pics posted..if you’re honest with yourself, you’ll admit this first offering is a winner and will sell like hotcakes in low numbers for sure.

I await you answer.

Cyril, I apologize for this post. It’s just KC CHEEF has a history of running his mouth and this is a classic example of his true colors. If you feel this must be removed than so be it.
Thank you,
Bobcat

I don’t get it Your attitude stinks.
As I said I **sat** on one You say you were **50 ft** away.
Thats a joke right there to be perfetly honest. Why didn’t you come over and say hello?

At 50 feet or 5 feet you can reconize the INDIAN.

If you wanna rant go to the Gilroy company… Ohhhh That’s right They closed in 03 after they ripped everyone off At least when you pulled the seat off there was no wadded up electrial wiring under the seat. LOL I should had taken a pic of that.

Hey Power Stroke good to see ya again, have good ride home?

rdawsoniii I do know that Brock has his chief for sale if your interested It is a nice bike and is loved and ridden. Dunno if you want a Scout Spirit or Chief Also I know Retro put his on Ebay a while back That was a sweet ride. I dunno if it sold or not, but Good Luk on finding your dream ride

LONG LIVE INDIAN
Your sister in the wind…
Bobcat

I definitely will own an Indian someday. I was hoping it would be one of the new ones but I’m extremely disappoined in the price. I understand what KM is doing and why, but I’m disappointed nonetheless. As it stands I’m shooting for an early retirement in about 6 years and want to buy an Indian as a retirement gift to myself. Since I would want to pay cash (or at least 75%) I’m not sure a KM Indian Chief Vintage is going to be in the cards. If not, I’ve had offers from several nice folks (KC Cheef included) to help me out finding a fine Gilroy machine.

I can understand KC’s side of things, as well as Power Stoke’s. There will always be differences in opinions on motorcycles…and between Springfield, Gilroy and KM Indian owners….but the bottom line is: Indian is making a comeback and it should be every bikers’ wish that they are back for good this time.

BTW,at that distance you didn’t look anything over, you saw a bike that looks pretty much like an ‘02-’04 Gilroy.

I love the looks of my Gilroy, doesn’t mean I would not want improvements such as a dash mounted ignition, digital display, a more upright speedometer, or functional signal indicators.

The look of the primary is not my favorite, however, the overall shape is not radically different from the ‘01-’04 Gilroy, and was dictated by changes in the charging system and clutch.

Speaking of primary covers I suppose you would discount the 99-00 Indians due to their H-D looking primary covers and the cloned softail frames and virtually EVO identical S&S engines used from ‘99 to ‘01

I participated in IMI’s survey way back when and best I can tell they used the input they recieved because the people I have talked with said they complained about mostly the same things,

Poorly placed ignition
Piss poor ergonomics
Far to wide bars for the average human (remember all the threads about narrowing bars?)
Lack of instumentation and rider friendly indicators

Just some of the items they have obviously addressed.
Nobody wanted a Springfield but rather a vastly improved Chief retaining the overall look of the Gilroy.

Pretty much sounds like what JW had in mind, except he has yet to produce anything except a customized Gilroy Indian Chief complete with a Gilroy Indian VIN. Nice work for a motorcycle shop but not cutting it for a manufacturer.

If you believe your Vintage (a nice Chief to be sure) is the last word in motorcycle comfort, ergonomics, and technology, you have very little experience with motorcycles.

Your cry of foul is bogus Ed, your just having a hard time accepting you got left at the station and the train already left. Not long ago you would have partied with the rest of the Indian (not just Gilroy) fanatics at Branson but instead you pissed down everyone’s back and told them it was raining.

Funny how you sound just like all the Springfield snobs who could not, would not, and never will accept the Gilroys as true Indians, your Vintage included.

Butch Baer and I had a conversation last year about his Chiefs, and he noticed the Indian tat on my forearm and asked me what year I had, I told him I ride a Gilroy and not a Springfield, he grabbed my hand threw his arm over my shoulder and said “It doesn’t matter what Indian you ride as long as it’s an Indian, and pretty soon you’ll be able to say you ride a Kings Mountain Indian”.

Seems to me that should be the attitude of all Indian owners. Doesn’t mean you have to agree with everything the current owners are doing, however, we should be supporting them, not constantly badmouthing their efforts, spread lies, rumors, and inuendo, then piss on the people that do support IMI’S efforts.

But that just not your style now is it Ed? Nope, you just keep throwing more gas on those burning bridges.

I will not be buying a new Chief in the immediate future, however the time will come when one will be parked next to the ‘02 and I will be proud to own both.