It is rider, rider and rider! HOWEVER, if one wants a sportbike, they want it for a specified reason. (Again, Rider) What, other then insane performance could you want in a sport bike? EXACTLY…. I want to go fast… I want that acceleration rush…. I wanted all of that. This is why we ride them. Come on, they are the most un-comfortable machine to ride on the road. Back kills you after an hour, wrists hurt from leaning on them. If it was about the “look”, then they would be putting little 150’s in a 600 frame.

In the end, I was pretty banged up. Spent some real time in the hospital, and in re-hab. 8 years later, and I am still hurting. But…. still, Motorcycling gets into your blood, and that is it. I just bought a 2009 Harley Nightster. Lets see how I make out with that. I have the pain, memory, and experience of just how lethal it is out there.

Keeping my eyes moving….

Chad

I also have a boat. Motorcycling is like boating – too many people doing it too little. They don’t know how to drive their boat or ride their motorcycle. Sport bikes are much safer than cruisers – they stop and turn much better. It’s not the bikes. Classes won’t help. You can learn to study the road surface by taking a class. You have to ride.

If I read the above, it comes down to this: If you go too fast, or ride drunk, you will almost certainly die. I think that is largely true in life, not just motorcycling.

I’m alot more fond of Sport Bikes than I am of Cruisers though. It’s just a personal prefference I suppose. Now let me just make this perfectly clear because I don’t want to give the wrong impression to anyone after reading some of these comments earlier.
I’m NOT an adrenaline junie and I don’t want to have anyone peel me off of the pavement for making a stupid mistake. I do NOT want to be another statistic…I’ve had my fair share of accidents and injuries already for misjudging speeds etc. Thank goodness nothing serious though.

Anyway I would like to hear all of your opinions on good models for an inexperienced rider like myself.

Thanks

Travis

young people do crazy stuff – i know i was young once, and have the titanium screws and missing ligaments to remind me of my youth (83 yamaha maxim)

sportbikes invite riders to go as fast as they possibly can (had a 93 vfr750f – not quite a sportbike, but i sure rode it like one – as fast as i bloody well could! I could not control myself, and this is why I no longer own that bike)

given the truth of the above statements, and irregardless of the inaccuracies of motorcycling accident statistics, it makes much sense to me that young riders on sportbikes are vastly more likely to crash their rides.

The value of this information to me personally is twofold:

#1 I’m glad i’m pushing 40 and now ride a 92 cb750
#2 I can repeat these ’stats’ to add weight to my words when i speak to my 29 year-old friend who just bought a 200 triumph daytona 955 – maybe if he understands his increased risk, he’ll be going 15 miles an hour slower when he crashes one day and it’ll save his life, or maybe that 15 miles an hour will allow him to completely avoid the crash in the first place.

i’m not so sure how much age comes in to play though – i mean on the one hand i was smart enough to sell my VFR, but one the other if i still had it i know damned well i’d still be riding it as fast as i bloody well could!

stay safe youngbloods!

RE:
“…They think, ….ride a bike like you drive a car…”
“…not paying attention is the real killer…”
“…because they were not taught how to really see things or taught how to drive …”

RE:
“…older new riders…” [ a major crash demographic]

Truth is, most “old riders” are new riders. If every 50-60 year old who claims to have “ridden MCs in High School actually” did so, there wouldn’t have been any cars in student parking. In my HS (in sunny CA) there were never more than 10 regular riders.

RE:
“… Classes help …” “… Limit the displacement [HP] by years of having a motorcycle license…”

So why isn’t such stuff mandatory…?
Because the industry wants to expedite sales, not restrain them.

RE:
“…wish that here was an easy way to pass on the lesson but it’s not….”
“… force new riders to gain their experience…”

It simply ain’t gonna happen.
The fragmentation of the MC demographic in particular, like the fragmentation of American society in general, has eclipsed the ability of either to understand the conditions and requirements of the real world. And so, expecting that we w

We got a hunder different kind-a hyphenated Americans voting on ballots printed in a hundred different languages. We got a governor in CA who told me (in front of 4 TV cameras) that’s not a problem because “it’s only a liddle mowa ink and paypa.” And we had a former VP (Algore) who tried to convince us that -E Pluribus Unam- actually meant “out of the one many” (the moron).

Being a American used to be like being a Biker. Ya had to Walk-the-walk, not just Talk-the-talk.
Today some people are trying to engineer a nanny state, in which one doesn’t have to know Jack-squat, but is still entitled to a trouble-free wonderful life. And so in the MC-wold some people are trying to engineer a crash less-existence.

We’re participating in a dangerous activity, one that gets more dangerous as the driving public around us becomes less and less qualified to walk about in public unsupervised, let alone to operate the average car.

So what, you say?

Well, in this pluralistic, non-judgmental, politically correct society, trying to figure out how to keep various types of “bikers” from falling off their various type of scooters is sort-a like a resident of New Orleans asking why sink is backing up in the middle of Hurricane Katrina.

Time to get back to reality:
You are born, life is hard and unfair, then you die.
And if you can sweeten the deal up with a nice scoot…. cool!

IMHO anyway.

-nicker-

I will say however, that I am a cruiser rider. I have some miles on sport bikes, but not anything like I do on cruisers. You can ride any motorcycle like a stereotypical crotch rocket rider. You can drive any bike too fast and without enough attention to detail. One of the hardest parts for me about riding a motorcycle has nothing to do with actually riding it. It’s trying to enjoy the ride while still paying attention to everything. You can’t write things off like you can in a car. If there’s someone behind you while you’re driving a car, you can pretty much write it off and check on them every once in a while. When you’re on a bike everything is different. You have to keep them in mind, where they are, where they’ll be, and where they’re going. You have to always have a plan on what you will do when the worst happens. Even if you’re all alone on a nice road with no visible hazards, it’s important to still know what you plan on doing if something comes up. It’s something that a lot of inexperienced riders don’t do and it causes unnecessary crashes. Too many new riders learn how to ride the bike, but don’t learn the technique of constant attention to detail. They think that as long as they learn how to physically ride the bike, they can couple that with their “road experience” from driving cars and that counts for experience. You just simply can’t ride a bike like you drive a car.

I apologize to preaching to the choir, and it’s been said on this thread over and over again that it’s not the bike it’s the rider.

When I first started riding I started on a small cruiser, but I rode it just like every other teenage kid on their sport bikes were. It took a good scare to make me realize the magnitude of the responsibility that came with a motorcycle, and I wish that here was an easy way to pass on the lesson but it’s not.

You can’t tell any new rider how different the road is when you’re on a motorcycle compared to driving a car. They think, especially the older new riders, that they’ve been on the road for years and they already know what to expect, as long as they learn the mechanics of riding.

In my opinion:

Classes help with the mechanics of riding, but do not address the real issue – paying complete and total attention 100% of the time.

Riders know that it is dangerous when they buy the bike, and laws such as helmet laws just punish experienced riders for the all-too-common mistakes of new riders. They made the choice to buy the bike, let them ride it as they will.

Road experience is the only way to learn the true danger of riding, and how to enjoy safe riding.

And finally, I don’t think that helmet laws as according to age or experience are a bad idea, but I think that should be expanded on. Make new riders start on starter bikes. Limit the displacement by years of having a motorcycle license, with an addition to the maximum for every year of experience. This maximum should be different for the different classes, as a 650cc cruiser is a completely different animal than a 650cc sport bike. This would limit the ability of new riders to hurt themselves. It wouldn’t solve the problem, but it might force new riders to gain their experience through a more controlled means.

“…Biggest problem I see out there is the ability to look at the big picture…”
“… pay attention to every little detail around you …”

Yes, Good advice.
However, that should include the Very-Big-Picture

I don’t know where you live, but if you intend to ride in the Socialist Republic of California, you probably shouldn’t attempt to “…escorted the kid [who's family you are not very familiar with] back to the yard….”

That would be taking on more of a liability than over extending your riding capabilities.

-nicker-

For example
when riding in a neighborhood did you notice the kid playing with a ball in the yard. The ball gets away and ends up in the road and the kid darts after it. If you noticed you would have prepared yourself and adjusted your speed before the kid runs out in front of you. This happened to me and the mom had that terror look in her eyes. I stopped my motorcycle got off and escorted the kid back to the yard and the mom gave me a big hug and thanked me.

Lesson
Pay attention to things on and off the road. It can save you and someone else’s life.

Just pay attention to every little detail around you and keep track of where everything is at.

If you don’t understand the basics (ie. what makes an MC turn, etc.) then sooner or later (unless you’re very, VERY lucky) you’re going to crash.

The fact is, if you crash your scooter it isn’t the dealer’s fault, it isn’t DOT’s fault, and it isn’t the Mfg.’s fault.

It’s your fault. Not knowing what your doing isn’t any one’s fault but your own.

No amount of legislation or do-gooder hand wringing will alter that reality. Deal with it.

-nicker-

Best,

Z-man

Sport bikes have the highest death rates among all types of motorcycles, according to the Highway Loss Data Institute. Drivers of these high-performance racing motorcycles are being killed nearly four times as often as people who drive standard models, a new insurance study shows.

Motorcycle deaths in general have skyrocketed from 2,116 in 1997 to 4,810 in 2006, and now account for 11 percent of all traffic fatalities, U.S. Transportation Department figures show.

The Insurance Institute for Highway Safety blames the popular super sport motorcycles in part for the dramatic increase. Sport bikes made up less than 10 percent of registered motorcycles in 2005 but accounted for over 25 percent of rider deaths. Super sport bikes are built on racing platforms but modified for the highway and sold to consumers. They are very lightweight and have powerful engines. For example, a 2006 model Kawasaki Ninja ZX-6R produces 111 horsepower and weighs 404 pounds. In contrast, the 2006 model Harley-Davidson Ultra Classic Electra Glide produces 65 horsepower and weighs 788 pounds.

We know that a lot of the people who get into sport bikes are adrenaline junkies with a daredevil mentality. They’re not out to take a cruise to enjoy the countryside. They want to get a rush by pushing it to the limit.

Since you’re just repeating yourself & I am as well, I guess we just agree to disagree. What a shame.

Let’s see, tar snakes, metal bridge expansion joints, overusage of lane paint, road grooving, uneven pavement heights, gravel on asphalt or concrete roads, metal plates, sewer covers and manhole covers that are not level with the roadway, drop off shoulders, wire rope crash barriers and yes the type of asphalt or concrete used are contributory to the deaths on the roads I travel.

You are right, some day I will be old and riding. Right now, I have 48 years of riding experience that tells me that you are prejudiced against sport bikes and a hot head in making your point.

Just to give you a clue about the folks dying out there, it is the guys that can not ride that atre on the top of the list. The experienced sport bikers call them squids and dont like these jerks either. The charity riders that have all their chrome and pipes without baffles on their poker runs from bar to bar have their weekenders that die, too. So, I guess we agree that no bike is safe in the hands of an idiot.

You are beating the drum real loud for the safety of cruisers, however, you have not addressed the inherent problems of high speed wobble nor low speed wobble. Cruisers have a great deal more of this engineering problem rear its ugly head than sport bikes. Many if not most riders could not tell you what it is until they get a tank slapper happening and then usually are dead before they can tell the tale.

The onus that you are trying to put upon one type of rider versus another is based upon the style of bike that they purchase. I think that we both should strongly address the personal responsibility of each individual rider or their lack of it. Whether you have 65 horsepower and a 900 pound bike or you have 200 horsepower and a 400 pound bike does not make a bit of difference if you do not operate the bike prudently and within your limits of riding ability and skill.

Let me repeat myself. I guess you missed it the first time.

Anyone out on the twisties, on any weekend, can see who’s going down. That’s THE fact. There is no arguing about it.

Stop trying to confuse the issue. When you come up on an accident, don’t you take a look at what type of bike went down? Do you expect me to believe you don’t notice? If not, start paying attention. And if you are really so concerned about banding together, let’s set some priorities. Road surfacing is way behind getting the race crowd to put their weekend pastime where it belongs, which is on the track.

You seem to take pride in your racing ability. They don’t have deer on race tracks, or driveways for that matter. If you want to race, no problem, do it at the track.

What is truly sad for the motorcycling community, is that the huge majority of fatalities (which ARE the sport bikes ridden by speeders)is unfairly changing the statistics. The safer cruisers are being mis-represented and lumped in with the unsafe race enthusiasts like yourself.

Good luck out there. Slow down & you’ll live to be one of those old guys.

Check your feelings about what I favor.

I favor riders operating within their limits of their skills and the limits of the motorcycle they are riding. Knowing the limitations of both should be a guide for every rider. Choosing whatever clothing that you ride in does not matter unless you slide along the pavement. If that is a possibility because of your riding style or because of the vehicle operators around you, dress accordingly.

One of my most effective pieces of clothing is a t-shirt. On the back, in tall letters, it says “CAN YOU SEE ME NOW, A**H**E?

Look, old guys are killing themselves as well as young dudes. I am not going to blame a particular age group or type of bike. That crap is put out there to divide us as motorcyclists. One of the bikes I learned how to ride best on was an old flat tracker. No brakes and one gear. I had to know what would happen a long time before I ever got there and how I would deal with the situation. I still try to look at situations in that manner. Many of the returning riders or older guys are not accustomed to that and they make deadly mistakes. A lot of the younger riders are going for the adrenaline bump. I agree with them about the exhilaration of riding at speed. I learned in the past and am still learning today about new and present dangers to riding.

I just can not see why some of the motorcyclists prefer to divide our minority presence upon the roads even further based upon costume, plastic, or paint. Rather, we could pull it all together and demand that road surfaces be suitable for motorcycling for all of us. We could all pull together and demand tougher sentencing when folks run us down. We could band together and say hell no when the government ties to tax us for not wearing the right hat.

Geez. A ton of worthless stats. How confusing can you be?
I have a feeling you favor the brightly colored, Japanese race bikes & I would bet you love to race around the country roads in a full leather, brightly colored suit, just in case you should go down. Speak plainly my friend.

Most states do not license or register racing bikes. Generally, the lack of lighting, the open exhausts, number plates and the lack of a kickstand are a few of the clues to the DMV.

Your facts seem to directly conflict with those of the record keepers.

There are no simple explanations for why the motorcycle death toll has continued to increase, but in a 2006 analysis of the accident data, the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration said two trends are evident: Today’s motorcyclists are older than in the past, and they are driving bigger, more powerful bikes.

In 1990, motorcyclists 50 and older accounted for 10 percent of all bike owners. By 2003, the 50-and-older crowd represented 25 percent of motorcycle owners. During the same time, the average age of motorcycle owners rose from 33 to just older than 40.

Most of the bikes in the showrooms today are equipped with larger engines than earlier-generation models. During the past two years, Harley-Davidson increased the engine size on most of its models from 1,450 cubic centimeters to 1,584 cc.

And it is not just Harleys that have gotten burlier. According to data compiled by Motorcycle Industry Council, bikes with engines of at least 750 cc made up 40 percent of the U.S. market in 1990 but now account for more than three-quarters of the motorcycles on U.S. roads.

Veteran riders say they doubt that the size of the engines or the graying of the riders can fully explain the rising motorcycle death toll.

It’s the boomers that are fueling this. They’re not new to driving a vehicle, but they are new to riding a motorcycle. People get into motorcycling and don’t really understand the risks that go along with the rewards.

There are about three motorcycle fatalities in rural areas for every one in an urban setting. The No. 1 cause is excessive speed going into corners.

First and foremost, it is riders killing themselves.

Twenty states and the District of Columbia have mandatory helmet laws for all motorcycle riders. Most other states require helmets for riders younger than 18 or 21. Three states — Illinois, Iowa and New Hampshire — do not have helmet laws.

But even a tough helmet law doesn’t necessarily add safety. According to federal government statistics, between 2001 and 2004 the fatality rate, measured by deaths per 10,000 registered motorcycles, was lower in Iowa and New Hampshire than it was in Oregon for example.

The problems are many and vary with each individual rider, their skill, and the particular situation that caused them to crash.

Trying to find “a” solution to is a waste of time, effort, and $$s.

In one voice (with $$s to match), the MC community and industry should to tell politicians (and other snivelers) to go fix something they are capable of handling and leave the rest of us alone.

We’re big boys and girls.
Riding isn’t safe and we all know that (at least we should).

-nicker-

Certainly the issue that you brought up about vehicle miles traveled needs to be brought up. However, you are making the argument prejudicial by defining it as a cruiser versus sportbike topic. This topic has to be addressed with more than that in mind.

Vehicle Miles Travelled (VMT) is a topic that the government has not addressed in their statistical analysis of crash injuries and deaths. For this reason, then are skewed to mean anything that the presenter needs them to say.

Years ago, motorcycles were modified by the owner in many different ways. Sometimes they were stripped down to lose weight, sometimes to remove dented and twisted parts, other times parts were added or chromed. Much of the personalization of motorcycles led to different types of manufacturer models. Some, like over zealous politicians, were adorned with all the comforts of any easy chair or a recliner. Others were refined with different ergonomics. Many times, better performance of that particular motorcycle were addressed by the individual for braking, acceleration or cornering. To other riders, these performance enhancements were not necessary and other modifications or personalizations were made. The individualization of some bikes was based upon aesthetics and beauty. Occasionally so many of these enhancements were made in one area or another that the bike became a trailer queen.

Owners of all the aforementioned types of bikes still exist and have a headstart with the different makes and models available. Riders of all these different types of bikes rely upon manufacturers to give them the headstart with the type(s) of riding that they enjoy. Some riders will ride the bike stock and others will modify it to their needs and tastes. Some will modify it to improve the bike in one or more areas and others will have a bike that is purpose built or custom built.

To assign any data figures about crashing to a particular type of bike is ludicrous. To assign any of that incomplete data to any level of rider education is also ludicrous. These assignments of blame are created for divisiveness within the motorcycling community.

Other factors causing death and injury often not considered are suitability of road surfaces for motorcycling. These factors may or may not influence an outcome on a particular style of riding or a particular style of bike. These are areas that the government refuses to quantify or qualify.

Let me ask all the readers the following questions:

When was the last time that you improved your own riding or someone else’s riding?

Have the improvements that you made saved your self or someone else?

We all have a common goal of enjoying motorcycles on some level. Under this commonality we are all brothers and sisters within this community. Yes, you are your brothers’ keepers.

goldiron

I do appreciate the responses on this subject. it is refreshing to see intelligent discussion based on fact.